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Author Topic: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon  (Read 38705 times)

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Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2021, 12:01:52 PM »
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  • Lay boards are common for any property that isn't owned by a priest or his group. They existed before Vatican 2 as well. They aren't intrinsically problematic, and the idea that they are protestant is an ignorant idea. 

    But like any issue of governance, corruption can be an issue. It sounds like it is here, and that's unfortunate. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #16 on: December 20, 2021, 01:13:56 PM »
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  • Lay boards are common for any property that isn't owned by a priest or his group. They existed before Vatican 2 as well. They aren't intrinsically problematic, and the idea that they are protestant is an ignorant idea.

    But like any issue of governance, corruption can be an issue. It sounds like it is here, and that's unfortunate.
    The difference here is that no such chapel board exists.

    What does exist is a school board engaging in overreach at best and corruption at worst.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline SolHero

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #17 on: December 20, 2021, 01:41:09 PM »
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  • Thank you Cera for posting this. I fell in love with OLHC until I learned things about "Father" Wiest in this forum and I could not stay there with those questions about his validity and it troubled me that Fr. Perez would allow him to stay. I'm blown away that some people not only ignore the discrepancies from "Father" Wiest but to do what seems to be an endorsement.

    I witnessed a mass by Father Starbuck and I am convinced of his commitment to his priesthood and the protection of tradition. I am proud of him for speaking up. I just can't go back to OLHC on a regular basis knowing that the issues Father Starbuck brought up are still not resolved.


    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #18 on: December 20, 2021, 01:45:34 PM »
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  • Incred, I didn't mean you as what you said is true.
    No, you were obviously referring to the possibility of only 3 other posters, including me. Hi there (waving). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lady, Cera, had posted a sermon here to a *publicly readable forum board*, and therefore airing the chapel's dirty laundry in public, if you will. So it is no surprise that there will be comments made to such a board. But it seems she is a member of that chapel and very upset at things. And rightfully so.

    ****Did the lady have permission to publicly post this sermon? Hmmm...perhaps in prudence the Priest was planning to repeat the same sermon at a later Mass, but did not want it made public, and that's a possible explanation for why his later Mass was not live-streamed. Did you consider that possibility? I am guessing you did not.****

    Why did she post? Was it to gain empathy? Was she trying to merely share information? Problem solve? It seems to me it is a combination of all of those things, but should she have posted the sermon in the first place? Only she can answer that question. You cannot.

    You don't know who goes to Mass there and who doesn't (I am quite certain it would have visitors at times), and perhaps I may know some of those visitors? Or not? It makes no difference. I am pretty sure that I could find acquaintances that have been there. Have I been to that chapel? How would you know one way or the other? You won't. Perhaps I have been considering travel?

    I indicated that I mixed up two of my replies to two different posters, and combined them into one reply. It was too late to modify them. However, NO, I want nothing to do with any sketchy situations that remotely involve Father J. Pfeiffer from Kentucky and his own little world there. Creepy...

    I don't have to attend OLHC TO SIDE WITH THE PRIEST! I don't need to hear any soothing words from you or rude accusations telling me it's "Pride" to have common sense to come up with this, when anyone with a few functioning neurons and a basic understanding of authority could say the same thing about siding with the Priest.

    If OLHC has people that do not respect the authority of the current Priest? Then buh-bye, off they go now. They don't deserve to have a chapel if THEY are setting themselves above the Priest, alone or on any Governing Board. That's how I see it. Go ahead and throw all the rocks you want at me. CA is a rich state, and it's expensive to live there. Real estate is a prime target to acquire. Whoever owns the land and/or has the deeds/titles, is in charge, for better or for worse. There is a reason why it used to be common for chapels and churches, etc. would not be consecrated until the mortgage was paid and the title or deed secured, or to that effect.

    If docuмents were signed by the Priest that died when he was sick, were they signed "under duress?" A lawyer would quickly dismiss things like this if there was any doubt he was not competent to sign in his condition. So I am guessing there will be lots of legal fun for that chapel coming up.

    There is an easy solution to the problem that hasn't been mentioned yet, but I am waiting for someone else to figure it out. The current Priest needs to call in all keys/codes/access cards for the property, and reset/re-key everything.

    And in case you haven't figure it out yet? I am on the side of the Priest. He needs to carry the authority. If he is not in charge of that chapel, then it is not me you need to be talking to about pride!

    Cera, I am sorry that your chapel is in distress, and that you and others are, too. Cheers, Anne.
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Meg

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #19 on: December 20, 2021, 01:55:07 PM »
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  • The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the center of our lives as Catholics. The holy priests who bring heaven to earth are of the utmost importance to Catholics. The understanding of most of us at OLHC was that Father Starbuck, having served faithfully for 15 years, would simply pick up when Father Perez left us.

     Many of us hoped he would solve many of the problems we have had with "priests" who are not actually priests such as "Father" Colletti (pedophile who had been laicized and who was not to say Mass in public) and "Father" Wiest (see Father Starbuck's sermon in the OP for details) and "Father" Croisette who attended the quick-study "seminary" at Pfiefferville.

    The school board members are puffed up regarding their own importance, but they are actually irrelevant. They first floated a story about a 2014 "docuмent" that Father Perez purportedly signed. Then that narrative disappeared and was replaced with a 2021 "docuмent" purportedly signed by a very ill Father Perez and "witnessed" by -- wait for it -- two members of the school board. This supposed docuмent gave the school board the power to morph into a Protestant-style Church Board (something Father Perez would never sign.)

    As an earlier poster said, Father Starbuck should just take over. (Easier said than done when dealing with those who so lust after power and money that they are willing to bang on the door of the confessional to DEMAND that Father Starbuck not give the sermon they didn't like.)

    These people have taken it upon themselves to run the school, but that does NOT mean that they get to appoint themselves as a Protestant-style church board with the power to run the chapel, take charge of all donations, cut Father Starbuck off from any Mass donations, and attempt to get rid of him to put Pfieffer and/or Wiest in charge.

    As Incred pointed out earlier, this battle is spiritual. Please pray for Father Starbuck to be guided and protected by Our Lord and Our Lady.

    Thanks - I appreciate the explanation. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #20 on: December 20, 2021, 01:59:46 PM »
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  • Lay boards are common for any property that isn't owned by a priest or his group. They existed before Vatican 2 as well. They aren't intrinsically problematic, and the idea that they are protestant is an ignorant idea.

    But like any issue of governance, corruption can be an issue. It sounds like it is here, and that's unfortunate.
    Bingo.
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #21 on: December 20, 2021, 03:33:02 PM »
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  • ****Did the lady have permission to publicly post this sermon? Hmmm...perhaps in prudence the Priest was planning to repeat the same sermon at a later Mass, but did not want it made public, and that's a possible explanation for why his later Mass was not live-streamed. Did you consider that possibility? I am guessing you did not.****

    Why did she post? Was it to gain empathy? Was she trying to merely share information? Problem solve? It seems to me it is a combination of all of those things, but should she have posted the sermon in the first place? Only she can answer that question. You cannot.


    Hi Anne,
    Thank you for your thoughtful post. I thought the answer to your question was clear in the OP; maybe it was not I realize that it was a long one and difficult to read because Father Starbuck has failing eyesight and uses huge print  Father Starbuck requested that his sermon be publicized in the preface to his email to me and others.

    I am willing to make a transcript of these words available in a PDF file
    for circulation, so that my words are clear for everyone’s understanding, for those who are absent, and for the public record. I do not have the time to
    send this out as a response to every email inquiry. But if someone could assist me in making it available, I am
    glad to provide a PDF file for circulation.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline nsolcis

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #22 on: December 20, 2021, 03:42:58 PM »
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  • the OP is misinformed regarding the parish and how it was formed and who controls it..
    Ive been attending for over a decade and know the families who built this parish very well..
    its very dangerous and damaging to cast shade on the parish to outside parties when you may not have all the facts.
    (people are already leaving regarding some of the falsehoods being spread around)

    the Board has always been in control of the school, and the church, OLHC just rented the space from them out of the tithes.
    MSGR Perez specifically instructed FR Starbuck NOT be made the pastor in the event of his death.

    To say that the board is attempting to "take control" of the parish is just wrong.. they were given the NPO OLHC by MSGR Perez.
    To call them protestants and Usurpers for merely following the will of MSGR is very uncharitable and basically uninformed gossip.





    Offline Catholic25

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #23 on: December 20, 2021, 03:51:33 PM »
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  • These posts are mildly interesting and mostly uninformed.  A few questions:

    Cera - so can we presume that you actually saw the 2014 or 2021 docuмents from Msgr. Perez?  Can we presume that you can identify the board members who were the witnesses?  Can we presume that you are personally aware of the date of the 2021 docuмent and that you can verify that it was signed either when Msgr. Perez was incapacitated or under duress?  Can we presume that Msgr. Perez discussed all of this with you?  If no, to any of the above, then you are guessing - and you're probably guessing incorrectly.  Of course, if you have evidence to support your allegation . . .

    Who actually owns the land on which the chapel sits?  This should be easy because it's a matter of public record.  If the chapel doesn't own the land, doesn't that belie any inference of a power grab for control of the land?  

    Cera and Anne - How is OLHC organized?  What is it?  Who organized it?  When?  What are the "legal requirements"?  Would Msgr. Perez be aware of that?  Is his name on any of the legal papers?  Why do you claim there is/was no board?  Is that even possible?  Or is OLHC just an imaginary nothing - no entity - just a name?  Again - this is also a matter of public record that anyone can look up.  California Secretary of State - business entity search - would be a good place to start.

    Just G - I thought the Arcadia (SSPC/FR. Berry) situation was played out in the court with both sides being fully "lawyered up" (the record shows that both sides had quality legal counsel), and the judge ultimately decided the successor based on the facts presented at the trial.  In fact, my recollection is that the legal issues lasted for quite some time.  Wasn't there some evidence on which the court based its decision?

    Thorn - good points.

    Again, lots of misinformation and supposition floating on this thread.  It's ok to desire an outcome - it's not ok to slander others in the process (see the 8th Commandment).

    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #24 on: December 20, 2021, 03:54:45 PM »
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  • the OP is misinformed regarding the parish
    The OP is Father Starbuck's sermon from yesterday; he asked that his sermon be publicized (especially since a school board member banged on the door of his confessional and demanded that he not give the sermon at the 10 am Mass. He had already given the sermon at the 7:30 am Mass.) He also asked that his sermon be publicized because evil forces prevented the 10 am Mass from live-streaming as it always is.

    Father Starbuck has been faithfully serving us at OLHC for 15 years.

    If anyone is misinformed regarding the "parish" it is you my friend and the power-hungry and money-hungry school board members attempting to put themselves above the priest who has served us faithfully.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline nsolcis

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #25 on: December 20, 2021, 04:12:44 PM »
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  • power and money hungery? the npo was given to them by MSGR.. its his wishes that FR starbuck not be the pastor.. yet you cast them as usurpers and power hungry protestants.. but you.. and this sermon ignore all of those very important points

    its absurd


    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #26 on: December 20, 2021, 04:14:22 PM »
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  • Cera - so can we presume that you actually saw the 2014 or 2021 docuмents from Msgr. Perez?  Can we presume that you can identify the board members who were the witnesses?  Can we presume that you are personally aware of the date of the 2021 docuмent and that you can verify that it was signed either when Msgr. Perez was incapacitated or under duress? 
    I see that you just registered today and this is your very first post. Interesting. Are you an interested insider? An interested outsider? Or perhaps a member of the school board on a fishing expedition?

    If you were a member of OLHC, you should be aware that Our Lady Help of Christians had a website through which Father Starbuck could inform us of the death of Father Perez and continue to update us on funeral arrangements, upcoming Masses, confessions etc. During this time he was doing the work of three priests.

    I say had, because unfortunately, that website was high-jacked by the school board members in order to silence Father Starbuck and sell their power-grabbing narrative. This is their latest post:

    http://www.ourladyhelpofchristians.us/
    Monsignor Perez provided docuмentation near the time of his March, 2021, surgery, that in the event of his death, (1) all Parish (OLHC) property would be transferred to the authority of the Board of Trustees of Padre Pio Academy, who would also, (2) be solely responsible for the timely choice of a new pastor.

      . . .Your checks should still be made payable to “OLHC” or “Our Lady Help of Christians”, deposited in the collection at Sunday Mass or mailed ONLY to: Our Lady Help of Christians 9621 Bixby Ave Garden Grove, CA 92841 *** OLHC priests are unable to accept new Mass Intention Requests at this time ***
    http://www.ourladyhelpofchristians.us/

    Long story short, these lay persons on the school board are claiming to have a docuмent which
    1. "proves" that they have the right to select a new priest (and the right to tell Father Starbuck who has faithfully served the chapel for 15 years to pack his bags)
    2. "proves" that they the school board have now inherited the church $$$$ property
    3. deprives Father Starbuck of meager funds he receives for saying Masses
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline nsolcis

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #27 on: December 20, 2021, 04:19:11 PM »
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  • im a concerned parish member who is shocked by the outright lies being circulated here.
    I joined to talk about your misinformed post specifically... 
    your conspiracy theories about a false letter are just as misinformed as the rest of your proclamations.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #28 on: December 20, 2021, 04:33:31 PM »
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  • power and money hungery? the npo was given to them by MSGR.. its his wishes that FR starbuck not be the pastor.. yet you cast them as usurpers and power hungry protestants.. but you.. and this sermon ignore all of those very important points

    its absurd

    Did Fr. Perez stipulate as to what should be done to provide a pastor for the chapel, if not Fr. Starbuck? What did Fr. Perez specifically say about finding a pastor for the chapel? Surely he must have said something about this, if he was interested in providing for his flock in the event of his death.

    Not that it's really any of my business, but the situation has been made public here, so I thought I'd ask what seems like relevant questions.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #29 on: December 20, 2021, 04:40:18 PM »
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  • the OP is misinformed regarding the parish and how it was formed and who controls it..
    Ive been attending for over a decade and know the families who built this parish very well..
    its very dangerous and damaging to cast shade on the parish to outside parties when you may not have all the facts.
    (people are already leaving regarding some of the falsehoods being spread around)

    the Board has always been in control of the school, and the church, OLHC just rented the space from them out of the tithes.
    MSGR Perez specifically instructed FR Starbuck NOT be made the pastor in the event of his death.

    To say that the board is attempting to "take control" of the parish is just wrong.. they were given the NPO OLHC by MSGR Perez.
    To call them protestants and Usurpers for merely following the will of MSGR is very uncharitable and basically uninformed gossip.
    It all sounds very protestant to me.

    I don’t know any of the characters mentioned herein, but it is certainly not the Catholic way. Besides a parish is a division within a diocese. What diocese do you belong to? How can a priest rule on his successor? What a disaster! 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.