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Author Topic: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in  (Read 3664 times)

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Offline Thorn

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Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2022, 06:13:49 PM »
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  • I thought Weist was long gone.  He's still there?!
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #16 on: July 05, 2022, 06:35:10 PM »
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  • I thought Weist was long gone.  He's still there?!
    Weist had joined up with Pfeiffer, saying Mass in a recent widow's backyard, in a large air-conditioned tent. Then he disappeared.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Thorn

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #17 on: July 05, 2022, 06:42:11 PM »
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  • I thought he was Old Roman Catholic, so what would he be doing at Kentucky?
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #18 on: July 05, 2022, 06:42:46 PM »
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  • The Protestant notion expounded by the Pfeifferians/Hewkonians is heretical, in light of Session 7 of the Council of Trent:

    CANON VI.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law do not contain the grace which they signify; or, that they do not confer that grace on those who do not place an obstacle thereunto...let him be anathema.

    CANON VII.-If any one saith, that grace, as far as God's part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons; let him be anathema.

    This is precisely what they teach.

    No, that's not what the Church is teaching here.  This is a condemnation of the Prot heresy that the Sacraments do not confer grace ex opere operato but merely ex opere operantis.

    While any Mass has infinite value, and even a single Mass would suffice to convert the entire world, and a single Holy Communion could immediately turn someone into a saint, God has chosen to "throttle" the graces that come from the Sacraments.  Saints are quite clear, for instance, that fewer graces go out to the people from Masses said by gravely unworthy priests.  Catholics could not hope to receive much (if any) grace from the Sacraments conferred by the schismatics.  But the amount of grace that actually transmits from the infinite well of graces (in any given Sacrament) to souls is entirely up to God, and there's absolutely nothing in Church teaching that precludes God cutting off the conferral of grace from Sacraments that were confected sacrilegiously, such as from a Black Mass, or from the Novus Ordo.  Grace is grace, a free gift, and God can withhold it from souls as He pleases.  It's perfectly legitimate to speculate that God would withhold conferring grace through the Sacrament confected at either a Black Mass or an Orthodox Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass.

    Of course, it's a moot point, since the NOM is invalid, a blasphemous congealing of heretical and blasphemous Prot liturgical concepts along with the sacrilegious replacement of the Catholic Offertory with a disgusting тαℓмυdic table prayer.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #19 on: July 05, 2022, 07:26:52 PM »
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  • No, that's not what the Church is teaching here.  This is a condemnation of the Prot heresy that the Sacraments do not confer grace ex opere operato but merely ex opere operantis.

    While any Mass has infinite value, and even a single Mass would suffice to convert the entire world, and a single Holy Communion could immediately turn someone into a saint, God has chosen to "throttle" the graces that come from the Sacraments.  Saints are quite clear, for instance, that fewer graces go out to the people from Masses said by gravely unworthy priests.  Catholics could not hope to receive much (if any) grace from the Sacraments conferred by the schismatics.  But the amount of grace that actually transmits from the infinite well of graces (in any given Sacrament) to souls is entirely up to God, and there's absolutely nothing in Church teaching that precludes God cutting off the conferral of grace from Sacraments that were confected sacrilegiously, such as from a Black Mass, or from the Novus Ordo.  Grace is grace, a free gift, and God can withhold it from souls as He pleases.  It's perfectly legitimate to speculate that God would withhold conferring grace through the Sacrament confected at either a Black Mass or an Orthodox Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass.

    Of course, it's a moot point, since the NOM is invalid, a blasphemous congealing of heretical and blasphemous Prot liturgical concepts along with the sacrilegious replacement of the Catholic Offertory with a disgusting тαℓмυdic table prayer.

    In paragraph one, you completely misconstrue the nature of the debate, so as to divert the conclusion: Although the Prots did/do erroneously hold to an heretical ex opere operantis conception of sacramental grace, they based it upon a continuation of the Jєωιѕн sacraments of the old law, in which the sacraments were truly merely empty signs, containing no grace (the latter being produced only according to the disposition of the recipient).  Hence, the Jєωs/Prots believe in sterile sacraments which contain, in and of themselves, no grace, and therefore do not transmit it.

    That’s what the two Canons I quote are condemning (as proven by the fact that they are speaking of “the sacraments of the new law,” in contradistinction to the sacraments of the old law).

    Conversely, (and note Trent using the following words to rebuke the Prot importation of obsolete Judaic sacramental theology), in “the sacraments of the new law,” if the sacrament is validly produced, the grace inheres, and if the recipient does not erect an obex gratiae (ie., obstacle to grace), he infallibly (“every time”) receives an increase of sanctifying grace.

    So when Pfeiffer/Hewko claim the sacrament is validly produced, but no grace transmits to a well-disposed communicant, they are flatly heretical (and anathematized).

    Because you err on this fundamental point, you commit a second one in your second paragraph: You directly contradict Trent by speculating in such a way as to put God against Trent.  What the Holy Ghost has declared is infallibly the case, Lad says otherwise, effectively pitching God against Trent:

    Trent: Grace always passes from a validly confected sacrament to a well-disposed recipient.

    Lad: Grace might not pass from a validly confected sacrament to a well-disposed recipient.

    If an Eastern Catholic in the state of grace should mistakenly wander into an Orthodox chapel and receive Communion, he surely (infallibly) receives the transmission of sanctifying grace. 

    Lad can oppose Trent (yet again: Remember, he also wants you to believe the entire Church, with all its popes, saints, doctors, and theologians, has misinterpreted “voto” for 550 years), but he has no power to change it.

    His third paragraph, well, par for the course.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline epiphany

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #20 on: July 05, 2022, 07:52:35 PM »
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  • As for having the same beliefs, what are those ... other than the same beliefs held by a majority of the Resistance priests?
    He has also been mum regarding Tetherow and Urrutigoity, and supports Poisson, Cordaro, and Roberts.  

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #21 on: July 05, 2022, 07:54:09 PM »
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  • Weist had joined up with Pfeiffer, saying Mass in a recent widow's backyard, in a large air-conditioned tent. Then he disappeared.
    Poor widow.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #22 on: July 05, 2022, 07:55:03 PM »
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  • I thought he was Old Roman Catholic, so what would he be doing at Kentucky?
    KY takes anyone now.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #23 on: July 05, 2022, 08:58:39 PM »
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  • KY takes anyone now.

    Right, credibly-accused pedophiles/sodomites, "bishops" with dubious-at-best Holy Orders ... in a compound run by a former "lay exorcist" practitioner of Santeria.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #24 on: July 06, 2022, 06:32:23 PM »
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  • I thought he was Old Roman Catholic, so what would he be doing at Kentucky?
    Both Pfeiffer and Wiest were in Orange County CA. As someone said on another thread, maybe Pfeiffer planned to set up Pfeifferville West.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: OLHC, CA -- Weist out, Hewko in
    « Reply #25 on: July 06, 2022, 06:36:48 PM »
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  • Right, credibly-accused pedophiles/sodomites, "bishops" with dubious-at-best Holy Orders ... in a compound run by a former "lay exorcist" practitioner of Santeria.

    Not to mention receiving Holy Orders (allegedly) from a Bishop (Webster) who's both a Sedevacantist and a Feeneyite ... despite having publicly railed against both SVism and Feeneyism.  Didn't he call these heresies?