The point is that this new Spanglish translation is being foisted on Catholic faithful from the top-down. The Church does not impose upon the faithful docuмents and memoranda about the "proper" invocations to use in devotions.

The Church established by Jesus Christ is a hierarchy. Only a Protestant or a member of an anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical cult like TFP/TIA would fail to understand that.

You are very rich in personal attacks and personal offenses, and always avoid the subject of the discussion. There is no "hierarchy" here, priests and nuns are part of the faithful (the learning church), not the teaching church.

I believe Cera is the user TradGranny on the Suscipe Domine forum. "TradGranny", aka Cera or a friend of Cera, is doing the same exact copy-and-paste hatchet job...

Since this took place in Quito I think we should reference from the original docuмents.

What original docuмents are you referring to? If you are talking about the docuмent released by the convent, it is not credible.

The translation "Good Success" is bad, you are saying?

It's not the best translation, and apt to cause confusion. When translating from one language into another, you must not only consider the source language, but the meaning(s) in the target language as well.

If you choose a term which has a different sense (connotation), other meanings (denotations), etc. then you haven't done a good job translating.

Say there was a sentence in some language, which had the meaning "Fr. Jones frequently communicated with Sister Mary." what if I rendered that sentence in English: "Fr. Jones had frequent intercourse with Sister Mary." Now that is borderline deceptive, as the word "intercourse" in English has changed in recent years to mean only sɛҳuąƖ intercourse, at least as far as connotation goes. In other words, the word has a connotation of sɛҳuąƖ intercourse.The sentence might technically be correct, but it ignores the nuances and connotations of the word in the target language.

Anyone who knows more than one language knows that words don't have 1 -- 1 equivalency. Very few words are that simple. Yes, "gato" in Spanish is pretty much exactly the same meaning as "cat" in English. But many words have overlaps or different nuances which are different from language to language.

I saw a billboard for a local Mexican restaurant which said, "Thunder your hunger". I had to laugh to myself, because there's obviously a lost-in-translation issue going on there. They're confusing thunder and lightning. It would only make sense in English if you said "Zap (with lightning) your hunger". But in English, thunder is the NOISE. The bolt of electricity is ONLY ever called "lightning" unless you're talking about lightning elemental magic in a video game. Sometimes a spell will be called "thunder" even though it's clearly zapping the monsters with lightning. But I digress.

I'm guessing in Spanish "thunder" or equivalent is used for the sound AND the flash of light.


Nevertheless, I think that despite any problem(s) with the translation, it should be left as-is because that is how the devotion was introduced in English speaking countries.

Matthew, are you fluent in Spanish? Normally one does not make authoritative statements - like saying that "Our Lady of Good Success is not the best translation" - unless that person is an expert on the topic. Are you in fact an expert in Spanish?

Certainly the translation is a topic that is up for discussion. I'm sure there have been other Marian apparitions with similar issues. However, I think you're right when you say that since the norm has been established (that of "Our Lady of Good Success"), it seems it's the case to keep with the norm rather than try to break the norm and start a new "custom" let's say. That would kind of be inorganic and artificial to say the least.

Our Lady of Good Success is a devotion that has been solidly established for some time now. Dr. Marian Horvat and Atila Guimaraes point out that pregnant women would invoke Our Lady of Good Success for successful deliveries, and sailors would also invoke her for successful voyages. 

They also pointed out in one of their articles that Our Lady of Aberdeen is also known as Our Lady of Good Success. This last point is pretty significant, since Our Lady of Aberdeen/Our Lady of Good Success are originally English-speaking devotions (not Spanish ones, like in Quito).

Hence, Our Lady of Good Success is not just the single event in history that is the Purification - this invocation of "Good Success" has been used in countless other applications.

Moreover, Fr. Cadena y Almeida (a very educated priest and the postulator for the cause of the beatification of Mother Mariana and perhaps the authoritative voice in the matter) saw the English translation of his book and gave his official approval of the title "Our Lady of Good Success" over 30 years ago.

Lastly, as mentioned by Atila in one of his articles, the nuns of Quito were well aware of the title of "Our Lady of Good Success" that TIA published, and they seemed to be completely unbothered by it for over almost 20 years.

Why is it that Guimaraes and TIA/Plinio followers think that they are the sole and absolute authority in determining what Our Lady's title in Quito really is? Where does that sole and absolute authority come from? Do they believe that it comes from their prophet Plinio?

"All change, except away from evil, is the most dangerous of all things". (Plato)

This name change idea will never get anywhere, the few people proposing it, Fr. Purdy and like two Philippino woman, are just three nobodies who think they discovered something they can make a "mission" of, it is rooted in ignorance and pride. Likely because they previously thought that the apparition was about worldly success. That their mission is misdirected from the get go, clearly shows that it is wrong. That they chose the Spanglish title of Our Lady of "Buen Suceso" of the Purification says it all, they are misdirected at their first baby step. It'll never get anywhere, Catholics seeking truth do not follow the blind, they follow the voice of Our Lord.

Here is what they should have done: teach to the few simple minded people like them,  that the English title of "Good Success" does not mean success in the sense of worldly gain. That is all.

My wife has a big devotion to our Lady of Good Success and has read the books in English, the thought that Our Lady of Good Success has to do with worldly success has never entered her mind. I read the books too, and the thought never entered my mind. The attraction to me has always been the message about the future, which in every way appears to describe our times. I first learned about Our Lady of Good Success in Catholic Family News, I think in the late 1990's, they referenced the books by Tradition in Action. The articles were all about the message about the future.

I wanted to clarify that Fr. Purdy of course knew that the apparition was not about worldly success, and that it is the Filipinos people, his congregation, that has it all wrong, they prayed to Our Lady of Good Success for worldly success and knew nothing about he message at Quito. Fr. Purdy made it his mission to teach them the real apparition. This is why he wants to change the name. These errors is very common in South America, the Philippines, and Africa and even in Europe among Catholic cultures, where Catholicism is just part of the culture, and the people really know nothing about the faith. However, Fr. Purdy is dead wrong about the USA, where the few devotees to Our Lady of Good Success very much know what the apparition was about, it is about the message of the future.