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Author Topic: Sedevacantism: perpetual succession visibility  (Read 20949 times)

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Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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Sedevacantism: perpetual succession visibility
« Reply #165 on: April 12, 2015, 06:58:56 PM »
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  • Quote
    It is impossible to obtain a valid imprimatur nowadays.  


    It is not my opinion.  
    The Church teaches that private revelations must have imprimatur for obvious reasons or the faithful would be mislead in innumerable visionaries not sanctioned by Her.  There is no caveat to that.  

    Even if you believe one cannot be obtained, it is your opinion, but not Church teaching.  There is no workaround.

    Once again, the faithful are not required to believe in any private revelation, even those sanctioned by the Church.  



    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #166 on: April 12, 2015, 08:25:19 PM »
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  • From the Catechism of the Catholic Church on private revelations and apparitions:

    Quote

     66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ." Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

    67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations."


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #167 on: April 12, 2015, 08:28:06 PM »
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  • St. John of the Cross in his book Dark Night of the Soul says:

    Quote from:  (2.2:3)...

    "...the devil causes many to believe in vain visions and false prophecies; and strives to make them presume that God and the saints are speaking with them; and they often trust their own fancy. And the devil is also accustomed, in this state, to fill them with presumption and pride, so that they become attracted by vanity and arrogance, and allow themselves to be seen engaging in outward acts which appear holy, such as raptures and other manifestations. Thus they become bold with God, and lose holy fear, which is the key and the custodian of all the virtues; and in some of these souls so many are the falsehoods and deceits which tend to multiply, and so inveterate do they grow, that it is very doubtful if such souls will return to the pure road of virtue and true spirituality."
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Amakusa

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    « Reply #168 on: April 13, 2015, 01:23:37 AM »
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    It is not my opinion.
    The Church teaches that private revelations must have imprimatur for obvious reasons or the faithful would be mislead in innumerable visionaries not sanctioned by Her.  There is no caveat to that.  


    Well it is an absurd opinion. You don't know about law and Epikeia. I have a Master in law... If what you are saying were true, it would not be possible for any member of the SSPX to publish any book pertaining to religion in some way, at least if you believe that Francis is our Pope or that there is no valid Pope anywhere.

    There is no distinction between the publications related to dogmatic subjects and the publications related to private revelations: they both require an imprimatur. If you make such distinctions, then you have rationalist ideas. Since the Renaissance, mystical theology has declined more and more, especially demonology, and very few priests still have recourse to exorcism. We could almost say that for the past three hundred years, exorcisms have disappeared from the parishes. Traditionalists use to despise private revelations, because they are influenced by rationalism.

    I know several persons who have heard God telling them that Paul VI was alive, even in their youth for some of them. But I know nobody to whom God would have say: "The Seat of Peter is vacant" or "the SSPX is right to disobey the Pope". The reason is God cannot tell us heresies!

    The quotations of Cantarella are all right.

    Bishop Guérard des Lauriers had a good teaching regarding private revelations. It may be surprising, since even his followers only know him for dogmatic theology, but it is a fact.

    If you don't believe in the existence of a pope in exile, there is no Apostolic succession anymore and no Catholic hierarchy. As Cantarella has stated, some sedevacantist priests openly deny the persistence of the Church hierarchy, or even theorize that: in France we have Abbot Zins, for instance, who is a simpliciter sedevacantist.

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #169 on: April 13, 2015, 02:09:48 AM »
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  • I agree that there has to be a Pope in exile or there is no apostolic succession( which is impossible).

    I do not however know who he is.  :detective:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Online Ladislaus

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    « Reply #170 on: April 13, 2015, 08:23:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: Amakusa
    There is no "false prophecy" in Garabandal: when the Blessed Virgin said that Joe Lamangino would have "new eyes" at the time of the Great Miracle, she did not refer to the eyes of the body, but to the beatific vision.


    Sure.

    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #171 on: April 13, 2015, 12:51:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Amakusa

    As Cantarella has stated, some sedevacantist priests openly deny the persistence of the Church hierarchy, or even theorize that: in France we have Abbot Zins, for instance, who is a simpliciter sedevacantist.


    The term is Ecclesia-vacantism and yes, is manifestly heretical, because the Catholic Church must always maintain a hierarchy, otherwise would cease to be apostolic, one of the four marks of the True Church of Christ.  
     
    There is a good thread about that:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ecclesia-vacantism-is-manifestly-heretical

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Amakusa

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    « Reply #172 on: April 14, 2015, 01:23:54 AM »
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  • I would like to ask you a question regarding jurisdiction.

    If a faction of the Roman clergy proceeded to the uncanonical election of an antipope, before the true pope be elected: according to you, would this faction immediately lose its jurisdiction?


    Offline reconquest

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    « Reply #173 on: April 14, 2015, 01:08:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Sure.

    It is necessary to look at the whole. While the prediction about Joey's eyes may well have been false, it does not discredit Garabandal as true private revelations can contain false elements. Interior locutions - such as the message about Joey's eyes, which did not even take place within the context of the apparitions - are especially liable to be distorted in some way.

    I don't believe for a moment that you would write off Garabandal so categorically were it not for your visceral dislike of some aspects of the apparition.
    "There's a mix of passion and shortsightedness in me, even when I'm positive that I'm doing my very best to see things for what they are, that warns me that I'll never know for sure. Undoubtedly I must follow the truth I can see, I have no choice and I must live on; but that is for me only, not to impose on others." - Fr. Leonardo Castellani