This may have already been discussed, but I have a sincere devil's advocate question.

The Society recommends not attending the NO. At best it would be a venial sin if attended without serious reason and even with a serious reason one can attend but not actively participate.

So if a Trad holds a Society position and is 5-6 hours from a Society or independent Society friendly priest who says the TLM, isn't that Catholic basically a home aloner for all intents and purposes? And if so do the same rules apply that you've been discussing?

Thanks.

Chant,

Thanks for that article by Ruby. It was a good read and a very interesting topic of how to make sense of all the post-conciliar insanity. Indeed I wish we had an Aquinas mind today who could sort it all out for us.

The problem is that we are in the middle of the crisis and thus none of us can see clearly with absolute certainty what is happening right now. For instance, it is easy to look back on some great heresy or crisis in Church history and see who was right and what the obvious proper course would have been for a true Catholic at the time. But to those Catholics living through those times, I'm willing to bet there was much uncertainty and anxiety, not quite able to nail what was happening and the proper response to it.

Then again, there has never in Church history been a crisis of this magnitude. Where everywhere around us the "official" Church is racked with all sorts of heresy, heterodoxy, liberalism, ecuмenism, secularism, humanism AND all of this error and the erring are left to infect the Body of Christ with no excommunication or censure from the authority. In fact, in many cases the authority itself is delusionally fanning the flames by agreeing with the novelty.

So you are left with mass confusion. But only some of us even SEE that this confusion exists. For some Catholics, Neo-Caths would ask, "what confusion"? For they have taken the most obvious and simplest course.

After all, what are our options in this mess?

1.) Trust the Novus Ordo structure and whatever they say goes. Try to live as Traditional a life as you can attending Motu and FSSP TLM's if you are near them, or else the most conservative NO you can find.

Positives: You are fully "inside" the Church and avoid the whole annoying "obedience" debates with every non-Trad you come in contact with. You don't have to figure anything out for yourself because Rome does it for you. Rome says SSPX Masses not recommended therefore don't go there.

Negatives: You are constantly reminded that you are part of the "NO structure" that has a radically different mindset than you. You go to Motu Masses with a majority of people who don't believe as you do and don't think as you do. They think VCII was good, ecuмenism is good, religious liberty is good, the Pope can do no wrong. They think the NO is a-ok when said correctly, they simply "prefer" the TLM. They don't personally "prefer" rock teen Masses, but they see nothing wrong with them.

The Bishop, more than likely, is a raving clueless liberal and most priests in the diocese are probably socialists. The diocesan schools and CCD are rotten and no different than public schools morally and theologically they are filled with modernism. Then you long to just be able to go to the SSPX Chapel across the street instead of being incited to anger daily and having your parish be a hindrance to your faith than a support.

2.) Go Society and never go to the NO, except for weddings or funerals and then don't receive. Avoid all diocesan parishes, even Motu Masses.

Positives: The faith is a given, solid holy TLM's every Sunday and in many places every day, well formed priests, good schools, great help in spiritual life due to other Trads and resources.

Negatives: Feeling isolated, no clear absolute certain leader or legislation to follow, all NO Vatican issued docuмents are suspect, constantly misunderstood and defending yourself to "obedient" Catholics, having no credibility with them because you worship at an illicit Mass (no matter how much you explain they don't care), confusion on the exact best course to follow (ex: this thread), tempted to despair as the Church and world are only getting worse, and it is clear that the Pope and Cardinals are VCII modernists at heart and will never think like you, etc.

I won't go into Sede options because they aren't options for me, but you get the picture.

I love certainty and this crisis is especially upsetting because the "certain" route of normal times has gone bonkers and it is apparent to all of us, but we are only a few in the grand scheme of things. 90% of all mainstream practicing Catholics think we are crazy and should just follow "the Church" and get on with their lives.

It is both a blessing and a curse to be aware of the crisis. It is a  curse because what is going on is horrible and getting worse and only you and relatively small # of others realize this.

I'm tempted to wish I could just go back to my blissfully ignorant Novus Ordo days believing the Pope was perfectly orthodox and wanting to clean out the evil libs and he was working on it and we had to just suffer through and wait for it to happen. I wish I could still believe the enemies were identifiable to a majority of Catholics. But instead the majority of Catholics are themselves the enemy.

I made a fatal "mistake" in my life. I actually investigated into what life was like in the Church Pre-VCII. I read too much. I saw the nightmarish facts fall into place that VCII was a trojan horse and the 5th column of modernists that remade the Church in their own image. But most nightmarish of all....the post-VCII Popes were formal radicals and are now in charge of the asylum.

I admit I often am tempted to imagine I simply left well enough alone and lived in my dream world. It is now like the film the Matrix. I have taken the pill and I now can never go back..... What next?

This may have already been discussed, but I have a sincere devil's advocate question.

The Society recommends not attending the NO. At best it would be a venial sin if attended without serious reason and even with a serious reason one can attend but not actively participate.

So if a Trad holds a Society position and is 5-6 hours from a Society or independent Society friendly priest who says the TLM, isn't that Catholic basically a home aloner for all intents and purposes? And if so do the same rules apply that you've been discussing?

Thanks.

I'm afraid they would apply -- with the exception that you believe there are a great many places you COULD go to Mass, if only you could find a job somewhere else, if that home business would take off, etc. it would give you a purpose in life, something to work toward.

I would be putting every penny toward paying off the house/car/student loan/whatever was preventing me from uprooting and moving somewhere else close to a TLM. The only money I wouldn't be put toward that would be the MOST BASIC of necessities. My wife and children would be on board, because I'd explain to them what the situation is.

After all, isn't saving our souls what our money is for?

Matthew

This may have already been discussed, but I have a sincere devil's advocate question.

The Society recommends not attending the NO. At best it would be a venial sin if attended without serious reason and even with a serious reason one can attend but not actively participate.

So if a Trad holds a Society position and is 5-6 hours from a Society or independent Society friendly priest who says the TLM, isn't that Catholic basically a home aloner for all intents and purposes? And if so do the same rules apply that you've been discussing?

Thanks.

Well, staying out of the Novus Ordo is not a bad thing. You don't receive any grace from it anyhow. Depriving yourself of the [real] Sacraments on the other hand, is suicidal.

No.  Receiving sacraments in the state or mortal sin is suicidal.

Obviously.

Would you receive sacraments from an Eastern 'Orthodox' priest?  Why or why not?

No. His sacraments are of no benefit to him or to any who receive them as he is schismatic and possibly heretical.