Author Topic: Novus Ordos believe St. Joseph had children! (Read 1459 times)

Sneakyticks · « **on:** June 16, 2014, 10:36:18 PM »

The title is abominable enough, but it is in fact true: i know some novus ordos who believe such a thing.

This is what this pathetic Vatican 2 sect has come down to: you have supposed would-be "Catholics" who believe St. Joseph was an adulterer. I don't know how many in the area believe it, but i know that a couple who is "in charge" of the "Family Pastoral" of a substantial area or "Pastoral Family" or whatever its name is, do believe in it. There may be more.

They picked it up from a publicly sodomite and effeminate presbyter who preached such a thing in an actual novus ordo mess. Yes!

What would such a thing be? Blasphemy? Heresy?

It goes without saying that you can deduce that such a wicked idea is utterly false just from the fact that St. Joseph was the holy foster father of Our Lord! And from the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and is and ever will be a Holy Virgin, and that she was married to St. Joseph who was obviously holy his entire life!

Those two things should be more than enough, but you know how novus ordos are. So, is there any specific definition from the Church or something else anywhere that says that St. Joseph remained a virgin until his death?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:44:13 PM »

There's an old tradition about St. Joseph being the father of one of the St. James, I believe.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:45:16 PM »

No, this has nothing to do with allegations of adultery. It's based on one Church Father (I believe that it was some Syrian) who theorized that St. Joseph had been previously married, had children, and then his wife died, before he took Our Lady as his spouse. That was his way of explaining how Jesus might have had "brothers". Of course it's still offensive and this Church Father was obviously wrong.

Most Novus Ordites do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Our Lady either. They delight in bringing Our Lord and Our Lady and all the other saints down to their level to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:50:59 PM »

I looked this up and found that about five or six Church Fathers bought the theory about a previous marriage for St. Joseph. About the same number as those who proposed BoB. Interesting.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2014, 11:43:42 PM »

Myth and Ladislaus,

That's interesting, I had never heard about that.

But, I would highly suspect that in this case, it has NOTHING to do with that old tradition/legend.

Just wait, I will ask around.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2014, 09:43:26 AM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

Myth and Ladislaus,

That's interesting, I had never heard about that.

But, I would highly suspect that in this case, it has NOTHING to do with that old tradition/legend.

Just wait, I will ask around.

Those are its origins. I heard someone on "Catholic Answers" spouting on about this. It's a false opinion that contradicts Scripture. Mary, wife of Cleopas, was the mother of James. Consequently, the same James who was the "brother" of Jesus is explained to be the son of Cleopas and not St. Joseph.

I am a firm believer in the perpetual virginity of St. Joseph. I also happen to believe that St. Joseph has been assumed into heaven.

Quasimodo · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2014, 02:56:22 PM »

The Protoevangelium of James describes St Joseph as an old widower with children. I don't know how the Church has viewed this apocryphal book but I think that it shows at least some early Christians believed that St Joseph wasn't a virgin.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2014, 03:20:55 PM »

Quote from: Quasimodo

I don't know how the Church has viewed this apocryphal book

With extreme suspicion, as with all the other stuff that didn't make the canon of Scripture.

2Vermont · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2014, 03:55:06 PM »

Eh, not sure what the big deal here is. According to tradition he was an older man so it seems to me that he very well could have been married and widowed previously. I'm not sure why this would be scandalous/heretical to the Faith.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2014, 04:01:44 PM »

St. Joseph had a very special role for which he was chosen by God, and due to the immense dignity of that role, it's almost certain that God preserved him as dedicated for that particular vocation.

2Vermont · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2014, 04:05:20 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

St. Joseph had a very special role for which he was chosen by God, and due to the immense dignity of that role, it's almost certain that God preserved him as dedicated for that particular vocation.

His role was different than Mary's. Where in Tradition does it teach that Joseph was "preserved" or needed to be "preserved"?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2014, 04:08:50 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Joseph had a very special role for which he was chosen by God, and due to the immense dignity of that role, it's almost certain that God preserved him as dedicated for that particular vocation.

His role was different than Mary's. Where in Tradition does it teach that Joseph was "preserved" or needed to be "preserved"?

St. Jerome taught this.

It doesn't matter that his role was different than that of Our Lady. What matters is that he's one of the greatest saints with one of the most important roles in history, and if God preserved the virginity of so many of his saints, why would He not also grace St. Joseph with the ornament of this virtue?

2Vermont · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2014, 05:30:11 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Joseph had a very special role for which he was chosen by God, and due to the immense dignity of that role, it's almost certain that God preserved him as dedicated for that particular vocation.

His role was different than Mary's. Where in Tradition does it teach that Joseph was "preserved" or needed to be "preserved"?

St. Jerome taught this.

It doesn't matter that his role was different than that of Our Lady. What matters is that he's one of the greatest saints with one of the most important roles in history, and if God preserved the virginity of so many of his saints, why would He not also grace St. Joseph with the ornament of this virtue?

Show me what St Jerome taught.

Is it possible God preserved his virginity? Sure. Was it necessary for his role? No.

Emitte Lucem Tuam · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2014, 06:19:40 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Sneakyticks
Myth and Ladislaus,

That's interesting, I had never heard about that.

But, I would highly suspect that in this case, it has NOTHING to do with that old tradition/legend.

Just wait, I will ask around.

I also happen to believe that St. Joseph has been assumed into heaven.

I've never heard of this belief. Where in Tradition can it be found that St. Joseph was assumed into heaven? I thought only our Lady was assumed? Where is this taught in Holy Church?
:confused1:

2Vermont · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2014, 06:33:30 PM »

Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Sneakyticks
Myth and Ladislaus,

That's interesting, I had never heard about that.

But, I would highly suspect that in this case, it has NOTHING to do with that old tradition/legend.

Just wait, I will ask around.

I also happen to believe that St. Joseph has been assumed into heaven.

I've never heard of this belief. Where in Tradition can it be found that St. Joseph was assumed into heaven? I thought only our Lady was assumed? Where is this taught in Holy Church?
:confused1:

Wow. I missed that post. Yes, where is this in Church teaching/tradition as well?