Author Topic: Novus Ordo reading insinuates non-virgin birth (Read 721 times)

Geremia · « **on:** December 14, 2012, 03:06:57 PM »

In the Novus Ordo readings for the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the verse where "she cried travailing in birth" is included, as though it refers to Our Lady and not to the persecuted Church (Apoc. 12:1-2):

Quote from: Apoc. 12:1-2

1. And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:
2. And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

Thus, the Novus Ordo reading insinuates Our Mother had a non-virgin, painful birth. Before Vatican II, this verse (v. 2) was never included for this reading of Apocalypse. In fact, the readings for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe are completely different.

Our Mother is a perpetual virgin even when she gave birth, which was painless and miraculous.

Pope Paul IV admonishes heretics denying Our Lady's perpetual virginity in his Papal Constitution cuм quorumdam hominum:

Quote from: Pope Paul IV

To Eve it was said: "In pain you shall bring forth children" (Gen. 3:16). Mary was exempt from this law, for preserving her virginal integrity inviolate, she brought forth Jesus the Son of God, without experiencing, as we have already said, any sense of pain.

and

Quote from: Pope Paul IV

For in a way wonderful beyond expression or conception, He is born of His Mother without any diminution of her maternal virginity. As He afterwards went forth from the sepulcher while it was closed and sealed, and entered the room in which His disciples were assembled, although "the doors were closed" (Jn. 20:19), or, not to depart from natural events which we witness every day, as the rays of the sun penetrate the substance of glass without breaking or injuring it in the least: so, but in a more incomprehensible manner, did Jesus Christ come forth from His mother's womb without injury to her maternal virginity…

Nishant · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2012, 08:07:40 AM »

Well, concerning the exegesis of Apoc. 12, I think the best interpretation is that which sees the Blessed Mother as the type of the Church. Hobbledehoy once posted an excellent commentary on this in these forums. St.Ambrose says this of her explicitly. Indeed, theologians say the virginal motherhood of Mary and that of the Church are but one motherhood only. One of the Fathers, St.John Chrysostom if I recall right, says that the Blessed Virgin gloriously gave birth to Christ without pains but experienced pains far greater in giving birth to us at the foot of the Cross, when she consented to become the Mother of the beloved disciple, and thereby of all Christians, suffering with her Son for our sake. This was the sword of sorrow spoken of by the wise man Simeon as well.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2012, 08:17:33 AM »

A great commentary upon the vision of St. John recorded in his Apocalypse may be found in the great work of Rev. Fr. Thomas Livius, C.Ss.R., Mary in the Epistles, or, The Implicit Teaching of the Apostles Concerning the Blessed Virgin Contained in Their Writings, Illustrated from the Fathers and Other Authors with Introductory Chapters (London: Burns & Oates, Ltd., 1891):

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2012, 03:05:34 AM »

Quote from: Nishant

Well, concerning the exegesis of Apoc. 12, I think the best interpretation is that which sees the Blessed Mother as the type of the Church. Hobbledehoy once posted an excellent commentary on this in these forums. St.Ambrose says this of her explicitly. Indeed, theologians say the virginal motherhood of Mary and that of the Church are but one motherhood only. One of the Fathers, St.John Chrysostom if I recall right, says that the Blessed Virgin gloriously gave birth to Christ without pains but experienced pains far greater in giving birth to us at the foot of the Cross, when she consented to become the Mother of the beloved disciple, and thereby of all Christians, suffering with her Son for our sake. This was the sword of sorrow spoken of by the wise man Simeon as well.

Our Blessed Mother as a type of the Church, yes, but also, the
woman of Apoc. xii. 1-2 is always Holy Mother Church, in all the
traditional commentaries, so if you find a Novus Ordo one saying
otherwise, it's obviously from a heretic, probably post Vat.II.

The woman in pain to be delivered in verse 2 is not with child
because of any natural means anyway, but as the Church gives
rebirth by holy Baptism, and by the sacrament of Penance
regenerates the fallen souls, the pain of delivery is the penance of
reparation that is inherent with forgiveness of sins and remission of
temporal punishment due to sins. That's what Purgatory is. But by
the merits of the saints can be applied to our own remission of
temporal punishment, so there is the pain in being delivered. And
the one saint whose merits can account for all such remission is none
other than the Blessed Virgin Mary herself. That's where she comes
in here. It has nothing to do with the physical nativity of Our Lord.

Properly understood, the second verse would not be a problem
for feasts of Our Lady, but since it is so easy to misunderstand it,
that verse should be omitted.

The Novus Ordo penchant for quoting inappropriate verses is
nothing new. That alone is a great reason to have nothing to do
with the Novus Nonsense.