Author Topic: Novus Ordo Priests (Read 4365 times)

curiouscatholic23 · « **on:** October 12, 2011, 01:12:51 PM »

I became a sedevacantist about 4 months ago and I have no regrets. To me, it is the position that makes the msot sense.

However, the hardest thing about becoming a sedevacantist is acknowledging the fact that all the novus ordo priests ordained in the new rite of ordination are not really catholic priests. So what are they? "Vatican II priests?" This is something I really struggle with because believe it or not I have met some very fine novus ordo priests who from my opinion, genuinely mean well but have this weird type of neocath allegieance to the pope. A lot of these priests are very conservative, very traditional, even say the TLM mass. A few of these priests, either diocesan indult or FSSP, have been very good confessors. Ironically, some of these conservative novus ordo priests have actually been more harsh and direct with me in the confessional than some of the SSPX/CMRI priests I have confessed too. For that I will always be very appreciative.

Even though I am a sede, it just seems crazy to me that a super conservative NO priest who is just hanging on to the NO out of a false sense of obedience is not really a priest. Since he is not a priest, would I just call him MR. Smith instead of FR. Smith? Even though I accept that Pius XII/possibly Cardinal Siri was the last visible pope, this just seems kind of crazy.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:24:02 PM »

And as a follow up question, since the NO priests are not even valid priests from a sede perspective, do I have a moral obligation to try to remember all the mortal sins I confessed to these "people" and then re-confess those sins to either SSPX/CMRI priests?

I have never gotten a straight answer on this one.

I have talked to SSPX priests who basically told me "chill out dude. don't worry about it, all those sins were forgiven."

And I have talked to sede bishops who pretty much said "I don't really know."
I need some advice because I am paranoid all my confessions to NO imposter priests are not even real confessions, and those sins hang over my salvation. Im afraid that Im forgetting some of my NO confessions. I kind of have scruples which amplifies my anxiety. One of the reasons I have scruples is because according to one of the MHFM videos St. Teresa said "most souls are damned because of bad confessions?" What does that mean?????

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:29:45 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

I became a sedevacantist about 4 months ago and I have no regrets. To me, it is the position that makes the msot sense.

However, the hardest thing about becoming a sedevacantist is acknowledging the fact that all the novus ordo priests ordained in the new rite of ordination are not really catholic priests. So what are they? "Vatican II priests?" This is something I really struggle with because believe it or not I have met some very fine novus ordo priests who from my opinion, genuinely mean well but have this weird type of neocath allegieance to the pope. A lot of these priests are very conservative, very traditional, even say the TLM mass. A few of these priests, either diocesan indult or FSSP, have been very good confessors. Ironically, some of these conservative novus ordo priests have actually been more harsh and direct with me in the confessional than some of the SSPX/CMRI priests I have confessed too. For that I will always be very appreciative.

Even though I am a sede, it just seems crazy to me that a super conservative NO priest who is just hanging on to the NO out of a false sense of obedience is not really a priest. Since he is not a priest, would I just call him MR. Smith instead of FR. Smith? Even though I accept that Pius XII/possibly Cardinal Siri was the last visible pope, this just seems kind of crazy.

Go with your instincts -- it IS crazy.

I don't think we can say that no Novus Ordo priests have valid orders.

I think it's more likely that the majority of the Novus Ordo establishment has some degree of error, most are weak, most are not malicious, etc.

I think one of the biggest problems in the Traditional Catholic world is the fact that people talk about "Sedevacantism" as if it's just a decision about whether post-Vatican II Popes actually held the Papacy at all. No, it's a LOT more than that -- Sedevacantist should be "Ecclesiavacantist" because it's always about the entire Church, not just the Pope.

"Sedevacantist" implies that a good Catholic is just judging that the man commonly known as the Pope isn't a pope at all -- or if you don't like the term "judge", he's just calling a spade a spade, using his common sense, sensus catholicus, or what have you. But it's rather innocuous -- it seems to only affect one man -- the man popularly known as pope.

But really it's much, much more than that. The status of the whole Novus Ordo establishment is at stake -- hundreds of thousands of priests, many bishops, the entire Church hierarchy (without exception; not just a few dozen Masons), the validity of the Mass, etc.

aquinasnmore · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:29:48 PM »

The real issue is whether or not the NO priests are validly ordained in spite of what you believe.

If they are then you don't need to go to confession again. If they aren't then they don't have the power to absolve you and you should go again.

There is also the possibility that since you previously believed that you were doing the correct thing that God still gave you the grace of the sacrament.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:33:14 PM »

Oh, and I will ask you kindly (just this one more time) to post any Crisis in the Church-related posts in the CRISIS subforum. That's what it's there for. Thank you.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:47:53 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

Even though I am a sede, it just seems crazy to me that a super conservative NO priest who is just hanging on to the NO out of a false sense of obedience is not really a priest. Since he is not a priest, would I just call him MR. Smith instead of FR. Smith? Even though I accept that Pius XII/possibly Cardinal Siri was the last visible pope, this just seems kind of crazy.

I think courtesy demands to call them with their respective titles they claim.

Vladimir · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:59:10 PM »

Quote from: Pyrrhos

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
Even though I am a sede, it just seems crazy to me that a super conservative NO priest who is just hanging on to the NO out of a false sense of obedience is not really a priest. Since he is not a priest, would I just call him MR. Smith instead of FR. Smith? Even though I accept that Pius XII/possibly Cardinal Siri was the last visible pope, this just seems kind of crazy.

I think courtesy demands to call them with their respective titles they claim.

Also, what should a "sedevacantist" do inside a Novus Ordo church? Would he talk on his cell-phone since he doesn't believe that the Eucharist is present? Does he genuflect, or just walk out without making any external reverence?

If he is firm in his belief, then he wouldn't genuflect, etc. But by not doing so, he is only giving the other Novus Ordo Catholics a bad example to keep on following.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:06:50 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Quote from: Pyrrhos
Quote from: curiouscatholic23
Even though I am a sede, it just seems crazy to me that a super conservative NO priest who is just hanging on to the NO out of a false sense of obedience is not really a priest. Since he is not a priest, would I just call him MR. Smith instead of FR. Smith? Even though I accept that Pius XII/possibly Cardinal Siri was the last visible pope, this just seems kind of crazy.

I think courtesy demands to call them with their respective titles they claim.

Also, what should a "sedevacantist" do inside a Novus Ordo church? Would he talk on his cell-phone since he doesn't believe that the Eucharist is present? Does he genuflect, or just walk out without making any external reverence?

If he is firm in his belief, then he wouldn't genuflect, etc. But by not doing so, he is only giving the other Novus Ordo Catholics a bad example to keep on following.

Im glad you asked this Vladimir because I was wondering the same thing should I venture into a NO wedding or funeral in the near future. I will certainly be in a "catch 22." Maybe I should just email Bishop Pivarunas.

aquinasnmore · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:17:38 PM »

If you truly hold the Sede position why would you ever be seen in the "monstrosity" that is a NO parish? The whole thing in your eyes is a grand illusion to drag people to hell.

Either be consistent across the board or abandon your position.

s2srea · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:24:19 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Also, what should a "sedevacantist" do inside a Novus Ordo church? Would he talk on his cell-phone since he doesn't believe that the Eucharist is present? Does he genuflect, or just walk out without making any external reverence?

If he is firm in his belief, then he wouldn't genuflect, etc. But by not doing so, he is only giving the other Novus Ordo Catholics a bad example to keep on following.

I'm never sure in a NO parish if Our Lord is truly present, but I act as if its so for 2 reasons:

1. As an example.
2. Just in case, since I'm no God.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:31:07 PM »

Quote from: aquinasnmore

If you truly hold the Sede position why would you ever be seen in the "monstrosity" that is a NO parish? The whole thing in your eyes is a grand illusion to drag people to hell.

Either be consistent across the board or abandon your position.

I "MIGHT" attend for a funeral/wedding of a family member. I still have not decided.

Before Vatican II catholics were allowed to attend non-catholic weddings, although I am unsure about funerals. So the idea of a catholic even entertaining the idea of walking into a non-catholic service like the bogus ordo is not some conciliar novelty.

aquinasnmore · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2011, 03:08:41 PM »

The difference is that Protestants were open about their schism. If you are truly a Sede, you have to believe that the NO is intentionally trying to mislead people from the Truth by disguising itself as the True Church.

How could you possibly go to a funeral since you probably believe that the NO church doesn't have the same understanding about salvation that you do? It would all be a sham. By showing up you are saying you support what is going on.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2011, 03:24:31 PM »

Quote from: aquinasmore

The difference is that Protestants were open about their schism. If you are truly a Sede, you have to believe that the NO is intentionally trying to mislead people from the Truth by disguising itself as the True Church.

Well, that's basically the case whether you're sede or not.

Quote

How could you possibly go to a funeral since you probably believe that the NO church doesn't have the same understanding about salvation that you do? It would all be a sham. By showing up you are saying you support what is going on.

The SSPX says it's ok to attend NO weddings and funerals as long as you don't actively participate in the service.

TKGS · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:12:43 PM »

My answers to the questions (they might not be "right" but they're what I would do):

1. Address a Novus Ordo priest according to his title if you are speaking to him, e.g., Father Crackers, Bishop Blarney, if that's how you would normally address a Protestant minister with a title. If you are talking about a Novus Ordo priest, you should do the same. Remember to be courteous though one should not ignore facts if the subject of valid priesthood or heresy should come up. Please note that being attached to the Novus Ordo does not make one, by definition, a heretic.

2. If you are talking about the Novus Ordo priesthood (as a class and not individually), I refer to them on those few occasions that I do as Novus Ordo priests, but any sort of reference that indicates they are not traditional priests is acceptable.

3. When talking about claimants to the papal throne, I usually write, for example, Benedict 16 and say "Benedict sixteen". When talking about actual popes I would write, "Pope St. Pius X" or "Pope Leo XIII" (sometimes leaving the word "pope" out depending upon the context) and say, "Pope Benedict the Fifteenth".

4. As for confession, I have been told that one should make a general confession every few years anyway, and, while it is not possible for most people to remember every single sin confessed to a false priest, one can do they the best he can.

5. I have been in a Novus Ordo church. I am respectful. I don't talk on the cell (or even text). I keep my voice lowered in defference to others. I don't genuflect. In short, I act the same way I would in a Protestant church or a movie theatre. Be polite.

Emerentiana · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:35:17 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Vladimir
Also, what should a "sedevacantist" do inside a Novus Ordo church? Would he talk on his cell-phone since he doesn't believe that the Eucharist is present? Does he genuflect, or just walk out without making any external reverence?

If he is firm in his belief, then he wouldn't genuflect, etc. But by not doing so, he is only giving the other Novus Ordo Catholics a bad example to keep on following.

I'm never sure in a NO parish if Our Lord is truly present, but I act as if its so for 2 reasons:

1. As an example.
2. Just in case, since I'm no God.

We have to go back and remember the fact that ALL Novus Ordo Bishops today (except for a few 80+ year old bishops now retired) , have been consecrated by the invalid rite used after 1968.
Therefore....... the priests they conscrated are not valid priests
Therefore........... Our Lord is not present in their tabernacles.

To genuflect in their churches would not be an act of respect for the Blessed Sacrament, but an act of idoletry, since you are showing respect to a piece of bread.