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Offline Traditional

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Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
« on: April 01, 2012, 06:31:38 PM »
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  • Every Sunday, I attend the 1962 Latin Mass at a church not to far from where I live. On Sunday, there is only one Latin Mass. The other scheduled services are novus ordo.

    The Gospel at today's Palm Sunday Mass was the three participant novus ordo version with the Priest as Christ, one of the Servers as narrator and the other Server as everybody else. The inclusive language and modern verbiage are definite indications that this reading came from the current NABRE.
    Isn't this episode a flagrant violation of canon law?

    In all fairness, this is the first time I have witnessed any abuses at the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at this church.

    I have thought about joining SSPX, but I am afraid to distance myself from the Vatican.

    Please share your thoughts on this issue.

    PAX
     
     

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 07:03:41 PM »
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  • Trust me, if you knew what happened during Vatican II and knew the heresies that Paul VI, JPII, and Benedict XVI have all uttered, you wouldn't hesitate to separate yourself from the Vatican. For in doing so, you are uniting yourself with Tradition.


    Offline Roland Deschain

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 07:05:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional
    Every Sunday, I attend the 1962 Latin Mass at a church not to far from where I live. On Sunday, there is only one Latin Mass. The other scheduled services are novus ordo.

    The Gospel at today's Palm Sunday Mass was the three participant novus ordo version with the Priest as Christ, one of the Servers as narrator and the other Server as everybody else. The inclusive language and modern verbiage are definite indications that this reading came from the current NABRE.
    Isn't this episode a flagrant violation of canon law?

    In all fairness, this is the first time I have witnessed any abuses at the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at this church.

    I have thought about joining SSPX, but I am afraid to distance myself from the Vatican.

    Please share your thoughts on this issue.

    PAX
     
     


    I would be more concerned about distancing myself from the Catholic Faith.

    The SSPX is not outside the Church. You can assist at their masses and contribute to the collection with a clear conscience. The current Holy Father has said as much.


    Offline Jitpring

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 07:15:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional
    Every Sunday, I attend the 1962 Latin Mass at a church not to far from where I live. On Sunday, there is only one Latin Mass. The other scheduled services are novus ordo.

    The Gospel at today's Palm Sunday Mass was the three participant novus ordo version with the Priest as Christ, one of the Servers as narrator and the other Server as everybody else. The inclusive language and modern verbiage are definite indications that this reading came from the current NABRE.
    Isn't this episode a flagrant violation of canon law?

    In all fairness, this is the first time I have witnessed any abuses at the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at this church.

    I have thought about joining SSPX, but I am afraid to distance myself from the Vatican.

    Please share your thoughts on this issue.

    PAX
     


    Greetings, and welcome.

    It sounds like they're doing a hybrid Mass, which is what many NeoCaths want. One assumes the risk of encountering such nonsense at diocesan Masses. NeoCaths are definitely not immune to the Vatican II lust for novelty, as this illustrates. Also note that that paragon of Neos, Mark Shea, recently fantasized about women becoming cardinals.

    By the way, there's no such thing as an "Extraordinary Form." Reject this Orwellian terminology, no matter its source. It's the traditional Mass, the Mass of the Ages, or, less precisely, the Tridentine Mass. "Extraordinary Form" is meant to assure that it remains marginalized while, at the same time, sounding reverent.

    Also, the SSPX is a priestly society, thus only priests may join the SSPX. At most laymen can be part of the Third Order.

    As for being afraid to distance oneself from the Vatican, I'm afraid not to distance myself from it.
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 10:11:27 PM »
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  • The true Mass could not be exterminated.

    Now it must be assimilated.


    Offline MeganProFide

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 12:24:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional
    Every Sunday, I attend the 1962 Latin Mass at a church not to far from where I live. On Sunday, there is only one Latin Mass. The other scheduled services are novus ordo.

    The Gospel at today's Palm Sunday Mass was the three participant novus ordo version with the Priest as Christ, one of the Servers as narrator and the other Server as everybody else. The inclusive language and modern verbiage are definite indications that this reading came from the current NABRE.
    Isn't this episode a flagrant violation of canon law?

    In all fairness, this is the first time I have witnessed any abuses at the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at this church.

    I have thought about joining SSPX, but I am afraid to distance myself from the Vatican.

    Please share your thoughts on this issue.

    PAX
     
     


    The modernist Bibles are generally deplorable, but other than that I don't think there's anything really prohibited about this.  The priest reads or sings the Holy Gospel first in Latin from the Latin missal, and afterwards if he wants to repeat it during the sermon in English (which he need not do, but the rabble likes) he can use whichever translation he feels like.  I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to use the Douay Rheims, but he doesn't have to.

    As to the use of other readers, in the solemn form of the traditional Rite the Passion is really supposed to be sung by three deacons:  a Chronicler, a Synagogue, and a Christ.  When the priest is saying Mass by himself because deacons are not available, and when we are merely talking about the vernacular rereading during the sermon portion, I think it's actually well within the traditional practice to divide the two non-Christ parts among the (vested, male) servers, who in this case represent and fill the role of the deacons in assisting with the proclamation of the Passion in exactly the same way that during the liturgy of the Holy Mass they are represent the deacon and subdeacon of a Solemn (normative) Mass.

    Offline Maizar

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 06:17:49 AM »
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  • For those who have not been to a Novus Ordo mass recently, the English translation has been changed in many regions, if not all. It is a bit more Cranmer-ish, a bit more directly a translation of the Latin, and potentially a bit less heretical especially in the Credo, but nonetheless it is like attending a conference on astrophysics at a kindergarten. It is the Plastic Mass, synthesized largely de novo by a committee, still abounding in banality, and still coming across as more protestant than the Lutherans. The approach of 'reforming the reform' is patently flawed and is going nowhere fast.

    I think if someone is asked to stand up to hear a Gospel passage, in whatever language, should expect to hear an approved and accurate translation of it. I have walked out of churches when this did not occur, because at that point I am usually too annoyed to listen any further!

    We are not expected to stand in reverence to the Priest's sermon. If he reads a Idiot's Guide to the Bible version of the Gospels it counts as his sermon and he should not ask us to stand for it.

    As a member of the laity you are morally obliged to find valid sacraments and attend them regularly to your best ability. I don't think the politics of the Church should be much concern, except to consider them from time to time and see that you are not straying off in some erroneous direction.

    Offline TKGS

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 06:45:09 AM »
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  • Unless you are a priest, you cannot join the SSPX.  The lay faithful do not join the Society, they merely assist at their services and receive the sacraments from them.  

    The post above is absolutely correct.  One must never distance oneself from the True Faith.  The Novus Ordo is a clear and present danger to the faith and all who are attached to it, even if they celebrate the traditional Mass because they accept, in principle, the Modernism of the Conciliar church.


    Offline Nishant

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 09:08:46 AM »
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  • According to the Sancta Missa website, there are nine forms of the Roman rite, namely, in addition to those in use today, the Bragan, Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Dominican, Carmelite and Carthusian.

    http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/faq/the-roman-rite-and-the-extraordinary-form.html

    Anyway, the Holy Father has clearly said the faithful may assist at, and contribute financially to, the Society's chapels. He's also said every priest is free to celebrate the traditional Mass, though that has not yet happened on a wide scale, with few exceptions.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline Traditional

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 10:08:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional
    Every Sunday, I attend the 1962 Latin Mass at a church not to far from where I live. On Sunday, there is only one Latin Mass. The other scheduled services are novus ordo.

    The Gospel at today's Palm Sunday Mass was the three participant novus ordo version with the Priest as Christ, one of the Servers as narrator and the other Server as everybody else. The inclusive language and modern verbiage are definite indications that this reading came from the current NABRE.
    Isn't this episode a flagrant violation of canon law?

    In all fairness, this is the first time I have witnessed any abuses at the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at this church.

    I have thought about joining SSPX, but I am afraid to distance myself from the Vatican.

    Please share your thoughts on this issue.

    PAX
     
     


     :sad:

    In response to a previous reply, the Gospel was never read or sung in Latin. The only reading was the English - 3 participant version. This was a Solemn High Mass and after the Gospel reading, I became extremely depressed and somewhat agitated.

    Offline MeganProFide

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 11:30:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional
    In response to a previous reply, the Gospel was never read or sung in Latin. The only reading was the English - 3 participant version. This was a Solemn High Mass and after the Gospel reading, I became extremely depressed and somewhat agitated.


    Oh, well now that I think of it, for the indultarians, under Article VI of Summorum Pontificum:  "In Masses celebrated in the presence of the people in accordance with the Missal of Bl. John XXIII, the readings may be given in the vernacular, using editions recognised by the Apostolic See."  So, no violation of canon law, although I would agree with you that it is a violation of liturgical good taste.  On the other hand, I can understand the reasoning of a priest who thought that reading the lengthy Passion narrative by himself in Latin and again in English would be too taxing on his voice and probably too long.  In such cases I wish priests would just read the Latin and forget about doing English altogether, but Palm Sunday is an unusual Mass as regards the length of the readings and the importance to many people of hearing the Passion, so unless your priest starts doing such a thing on a regular basis I would not go into a full nervous breakdown yet.  You certainly should tell him that you don't like this practice and would rather have had just the Latin read alone with no English at all.

    On the other hand, maybe you can be glad you don't have to face what I'm told is a standard SSPX practice in Europe:  having a server "proclaim" the Holy Gospel to the people while the priest reads it to himself in Latin.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 08:58:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Unless you are a priest, you cannot join the SSPX.  The lay faithful do not join the Society, they merely assist at their services and receive the sacraments from them.  

    The post above is absolutely correct.  One must never distance oneself from the True Faith.  The Novus Ordo is a clear and present danger to the faith and all who are attached to it, even if they celebrate the traditional Mass because they accept, in principle, the Modernism of the Conciliar church.


    Bravissimo!! :geezer:
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Novus Ordo Gospel at 1962 Latin Rite Mass
    « Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 11:42:59 PM »
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  • The fact that using Novus Readings at a TLM is allowed by Rome is a red flag.

    They will ruin the TLM little by little.

    Whether it is "allowed" canonically is irrelevant as they can canonically "approve" every novelty they want and have done so. Next thing you know, the Pope will forbid the rosary and you'll have Ed Peters immediately blogging that canonically the Pope is completely justified in doing so.

    If the law doesn't support the Faith, then to Hell with the law.

    The Pharisees have nothing on the Neo-Caths. Neo-Caths would be chastising Jesus for healing on the Sabbath quoting the law just like the Pharisees. They also could not see the forest for the trees.

     

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