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Author Topic: Novus ordo attendance sinful  (Read 2660 times)

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Offline Gunter

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Novus ordo attendance sinful
« on: January 02, 2024, 02:19:29 PM »
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    • Do parishioners of the sspx confess as sinful when they participate in novus ordo masses?
    If so why?  If no why?
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #1 on: January 02, 2024, 05:41:13 PM »
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    • Define “participate” in this situation. The answer depends upon who you ask!  It also depends upon the actual M(m)ass and priest.  Is the priest actually a priest?  Did the person receive Communion (or just a piece of flat bread?)  Were the novus ordo rubrics followed?  Are they valid, even if the most conservative and perhaps in Latin? 
    What about the person who attended?  What does he or she understand of the Faith?  Did he participate despite serious doubts out of human respect?  Did his participation give scandal?  
    I don’t think this question can be answered until the Church returns to Her right mind!  

    For what it’s worth, I treat going to a novus ordo as I’d treat attending a Protestant service for reasons of avoiding scandal, professional obligation, etc. If no scandal is given to those in Tradition, I’ll attend, but refrain from direct participation.  Anything clearly against the traditional Faith or morals, I shun entirely.  In other matters, ie. social small talk afterwards, etc., I let charity prevail.  
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    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #2 on: January 02, 2024, 06:56:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on January 02, 2024, 05:41:13 PM
    Define “participate” in this situation. The answer depends upon who you ask!  It also depends upon the actual M(m)ass and priest.  Is the priest actually a priest?  Did the person receive Communion (or just a piece of flat bread?)  Were the novus ordo rubrics followed?  Are they valid, even if the most conservative and perhaps in Latin?
    What about the person who attended?  What does he or she understand of the Faith?  Did he participate despite serious doubts out of human respect?  Did his participation give scandal? 
    I don’t think this question can be answered until the Church returns to Her right mind! 

    For what it’s worth, I treat going to a novus ordo as I’d treat attending a Protestant service for reasons of avoiding scandal, professional obligation, etc. If no scandal is given to those in Tradition, I’ll attend, but refrain from direct participation.  Anything clearly against the traditional Faith or morals, I shun entirely.  In other matters, ie. social small talk afterwards, etc., 
    Would you say this is the position of the s s p x?  I'm trying to find out what their position is?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #3 on: January 02, 2024, 07:00:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on January 02, 2024, 05:41:13 PM
    Define “participate” in this situation. The answer depends upon who you ask!  It also depends upon the actual M(m)ass and priest.  Is the priest actually a priest?  Did the person receive Communion (or just a piece of flat bread?)  Were the novus ordo rubrics followed?  Are they valid, even if the most conservative and perhaps in Latin?

    Well, I think whether someone confesses would not depend on the priest as much as on the individual going to Confession and whether their conscience is troubled by the NOM.  There are some SVs who attend SSPX chapels, some who believe the NOM is a sacrilege, and others who attend SSPX chapels who are just displaced "Motarians" who have no issues with regularly attending the local NO guitar "Mass".
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #4 on: January 02, 2024, 08:21:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gunter on January 02, 2024, 06:56:56 PM
    Would you say this is the position of the s s p x?  I'm trying to find out what their position is?
    This may help your understanding:
    https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

    There are Catholics coming over from the NOM to SSPX chapels all the time. The general advice is to stay away from the NO because of the danger to the Faith. However, the question of sin depends upon one's understanding, and the priest has to be careful not to anticipate grace and the work of God in the soul. Most Catholics exposed to the true Mass eventually understand without needing to be told.

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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #5 on: January 03, 2024, 03:57:21 AM »
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    • My priest has said that if you know the problems with the NO but you still attend it is a mortal sin. He is SSPX.
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    Offline librorum

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #6 on: January 03, 2024, 03:59:44 AM »
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    • The old blue "Christian Warfare" book published by the SSPX in the 1990s used to say attendance at a NO Mass should be confessed. It was removed in subsequent editions, from what I was told.
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    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #7 on: January 03, 2024, 05:44:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: librorum on January 03, 2024, 03:59:44 AM
    The old blue "Christian Warfare" book published by the SSPX in the 1990s used to say attendance at a NO Mass should be confessed. It was removed in subsequent editions, from what I was told.
    If you have a copy could you take a picture of the "sin" to confess page which shows the NO attendance reference.   
    If anyone knows how to get a copy that would be nice.
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    Offline BOTHY

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #8 on: January 03, 2024, 09:20:21 AM »
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    • Christian Warfare New Deluxe Edition Society of Saint Pius X, 2009
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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #9 on: January 03, 2024, 05:09:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: librorum on January 03, 2024, 03:59:44 AM
    The old blue "Christian Warfare" book published by the SSPX in the 1990s used to say attendance at a NO Mass should be confessed. It was removed in subsequent editions, from what I was told.
    I can confirm it is not in my 2016 edition. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #10 on: January 03, 2024, 05:11:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: HeavyHanded on January 03, 2024, 05:09:39 PM
    I can confirm it is not in my 2016 edition.

    Shocking.
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    Offline gemmarose

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #11 on: January 05, 2024, 10:40:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: HeavyHanded on January 03, 2024, 05:09:39 PM
    I can confirm it is not in my 2016 edition.
    I received my 2009 edition when I attended a silent retreat in Arizona. I had no idea they have a new edition. Can you share a picture of the page please. If you can't, after Mass on Sunday, I'll check out the bookstore and see if they did change it, if it was, I'm going to find Fr & ask him why. Anyways, Bishop Tissier did say Paul VI instituted other words which do not speak of consecration or sanctification.


    https://fsspx.uk/en/news-events/news/ordination-sermon-bishop-tissier-de-mallerais-16842
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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #12 on: January 05, 2024, 03:26:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: gemmarose on January 05, 2024, 10:40:56 AM
    I received my 2009 edition when I attended a silent retreat in Arizona. I had no idea they have a new edition. Can you share a picture of the page please. If you can't, after Mass on Sunday, I'll check out the bookstore and see if they did change it, if it was, I'm going to find Fr & ask him why. Anyways, Bishop Tissier did say Paul VI instituted other words which do not speak of consecration or sanctification.


    https://fsspx.uk/en/news-events/news/ordination-sermon-bishop-tissier-de-mallerais-16842
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    Offline gemmarose

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #13 on: January 05, 2024, 05:12:32 PM »
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    • Unbelievable!!! 


    Thank you so much. I will ask Fr. on Sunday why the change. Can't wait to see & hear his reaction.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: Novus ordo attendance sinful
    « Reply #14 on: January 06, 2024, 06:52:59 AM »
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    • It is still there in the 2022 Asian edition.
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