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Author Topic: Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music  (Read 1512 times)

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Offline Mortalium

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Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
« on: April 22, 2013, 02:58:10 AM »
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  • I don't know about North America or Europe, but in Latin America the Novus Ordo's and the Protestants use the same "music".

    The "music" that the Protestants (mainly the "Evangelicals") use in their "cult" gatherings is the same "music" (blasphemous garbage compared to real Church music, actually) that the Novus Ordo uses in the mess and in their "pastoral activities"; they use many of the same charismatic, touchy-feely songs with the exception of the Marian ones which the Protestants of course don't use.

    I don't know if the case is that the Protestants came up with these songs and then the Novus Ordo started using them after Vatican II or vice versa. This is something I've always wondered.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 04:17:02 AM »
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  • The Protestants came up with the songs and then the Novus Ordo started using them after Vatican II.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 09:24:42 AM »
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  • Well, I don't know about South American or Europe, but here in the US the Novus Ordo and the protestants use the same liturgy, nevermind the same music.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline trento

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 10:08:21 AM »
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  • Some famous hymns sung in Catholic churches were composed by Protestants. The criteria for admission would be the hymn tunes or melody, orthodox texts, and not written specifically against the Catholic Church.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 12:23:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: trento
    Some famous hymns sung in Catholic churches were composed by Protestants. The criteria for admission would be the hymn tunes or melody, orthodox texts, and not written specifically against the Catholic Church.


    This is true and is correctly applied to the music of J.S. Bach but should not apply to the Haugen song "Gather Us In".

    Check it out on youtube and see the lyrics to "Gather Us In" - it's pretty darn close to being heretical.  

    As for the life of me, I don't know why the songwriters want us to "gather the courage to enter the song" when, according to Catholic Tradition, our end is what we should be concerned with.  And I do think there may be a problem with the whole "not in some heaven light year's away" - what?  

    It's best not to take the lyrics to a lot of novus ordo songs to heart.  As for protestant songs, they are heretics so their music should enthrone heresy and decay.  

    The tune to "Gather Us In", I must admit, is rather catchy in a macaroini and cheese out of the box kind of way!


    Offline Napoli

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 06:15:36 PM »
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  • I have been traumatised many times in the past thanks to Novus Ordo music. In fact, I am reeling in agony right now thinking about it. There music is an affront to Almighty God and his Saints.
    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

    Offline pollozlocoz

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 08:21:52 PM »
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  • What mortalium says is true.  I myself went to those horrible, horrible, "masses" in Spanish in the past. Now I go to a diocesan TLM (there are no sspx chapels nearby). I remember there was this one song during the communion where I thought the choir was singing a love song instead of religious song. Anyway, I think most of the songs in those sacrilegious masses are composed by charismatics, not protestants.

    Offline Frances

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 12:53:02 PM »
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  • Some Catholic hymns, pre-VII are set to Protestant tunes.  Many Protestant "hymns" are actually folk music of the region the oiginal settlers came from, at least in the U.S.  In the post VII era, so-called Contemporary christian songs are sentimental trash, whether Catholic or Protestant.  The lyrics are full of "I, me, my, mine, myself, feel...". Too often God is addressed as one's "best buddy.". Thee is a complete dearth of songs to Mary.  Sometimes the Holy Ghost is an "It"rather than a Who.  The word "Holy" is omitted leaving praise for "the Spirit.". Which spirit?  Whose spirit?
    Protestants say "Catholics don't sing!". They are right, but not for the reason Protestants give.  We don't sing, supposedly, because we have nothing about which to sing.  We don't know Christ, so why sing?  Like idiots, the promulgators of Vat. II said, "Uh-oh.  We better start singing like our "separated brethren" or they'll think we don't have the faith.  Hey, maybe we don't have the faith!  Let's show 'em, boyz!" What followed weresome of the sappiest sentimental songs known to man.  The Protestants' songs are much better than the "choruses" of the Charismatic Catholics.  That is why n.o. Catholics use them.
     What did Catholics have for nearly two millenia instead of singing in their "services"?  We had the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass whereby Christ Himself is made literally present, Body, Blood, Soul, Divinity.  Think thusly, if Jesus Christ appeared before a crowded church, in His Body, would you greet Him with a lusty chorus of Gather Us In, or would fall on your knees or face in awe and worship?  Vat. II with its watered-down dogma, liberal double-speak, and collegiality has erased the reason for the faith, Jesus Christ come in the flesh. The Lord of All in His Real Presence has been replaced by the singing of treacly songs in the vain hope of somehow "conjuring Him up" as is done by Protestants of every sort.  
    Do not think I do not like music.  A well-sung high Mass is a foretaste of Heaven.  But even in the high Mass, there is awful (awe-filled) silence at the moment of Consecration.  Remove singing and sermon from the Protestant "service," there is nothing left.  Remove singing and sermon from the True Mass, Christ Incarnate remains.
    The fact that Protestants and n.o. Catholics use the same song is not a fault in itself.  It is a symptom of he absence of Our Lord.  
    Now to go to low Mass!  "The Lord is in His Holy Temple, let all the earth be silent before Him.". Hab. II v. xx.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Novus Ordo and Protestants use the same music
    « Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 04:29:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mortalium
    I don't know about North America or Europe, but in Latin America the Novus Ordo's and the Protestants use the same "music".

    The "music" that the Protestants (mainly the "Evangelicals") use in their "cult" gatherings is the same "music" (blasphemous garbage compared to real Church music, actually) that the Novus Ordo uses in the mess and in their "pastoral activities"; they use many of the same charismatic, touchy-feely songs with the exception of the Marian ones which the Protestants of course don't use.

    I don't know if the case is that the Protestants came up with these songs and then the Novus Ordo started using them after Vatican II or vice versa. This is something I've always wondered.


    The Protestants came up with the tradition, and the Novordiens adopted
    the tradition.  -- Note: one of the Protestants' protests has always been
    the tradition of Catholics, so here they are making up their own tradition
    while they continue to complain about Catholic tradition!  That's hypocrisy.


    Quote from: Stubborn
    The Protestants came up with the songs and then the Novus Ordo started using them after Vatican II.


    While this is true in many cases, and is a big topic for concern, it is not
    always the problem with whatever music is used at a Novordien setting.

    A more general principle is, what music is appropriate for Mass and what
    music is not appropriate for Mass.  All concerned, the FIRST CRITERION
    should be whether a particular piece of music is known to be one used
    in Protestant 'worship services' and, if so, it should therefore NOT be used
    in the Catholic Mass setting, on that criterion alone, all else notwithstanding.

    And the reason is, anyone who is a convert from Protestantism has a
    lot of old memories to put away and forget, so he should not have to be
    subject to hearing the same music he heard in those heretical sects that
    he has abjured.


    Quote from: trento
    Some famous hymns sung in Catholic churches were composed by Protestants. The criteria for admission would be the hymn tunes or melody, orthodox texts, and not written specifically against the Catholic Church.


    That is ONE of the criteria.  But it is not the only one, NOR is it the
    most important one.  What is MOST IMPORTANT is that any music
    that is or has been (especially recently) used in a Protestant worship
    service should NOT be used for Catholic Mass. Period!  See above.


    Quote from: Napoli
    I have been traumatised many times in the past thanks to Novus Ordo music. In fact, I am reeling in agony right now thinking about it. [Their] music is an affront to Almighty God and his Saints.


    Case in point.  The music should not scandalize the Faithful.  It should
    never be a CAUSE of their inability to pray or focus on the Mass.  It
    should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be a distraction.

    Napoli may have been appalled at the music objectively, on its inherent
    merit or lack thereof, but so too are Protestant converts appalled at
    having to endure reminders of what they so much desire to leave behind.



    Quote from: pollozlocoz
    What mortalium says is true.  I myself went to those horrible, horrible, "masses" in Spanish in the past. Now I go to a diocesan TLM (there are no sspx chapels nearby). I remember there was this one song during the communion where I thought the choir was singing a love song instead of religious song. Anyway, I think most of the songs in those sacrilegious masses are composed by charismatics, not protestants.


    FWIW, those "horrible, horrible masses in Spanish" are typical of what
    the new Pope Francis has presided over in Argentina for decades.  Now,
    in liturgical settings where he is expected to sing Gregorian Chant, it
    has become clear that he is incapable of doing so.  Not only does he
    seem to be tone-deaf, but he knows nothing about Gregorian Chant
    or what makes it beautiful.  


    As a matter of reference, the way the Protestant tradition developed
    was, Martin Luther imported melodies that were commonly sung in the
    pubs and beer gardens of Germany (beer drinking is a serious occupation
    in Germany), removed the profane words and substituted Scripture
    and other religious- sounding words, and this was very well received
    by the heretics at his services.  So the tradition grew from there.  

    Basically, it comes down to this:  

    When they went to Luther's service, they heard songs that reminded them
    of the beer parties they were just at Saturday evening (yesterday) and
    then they could spend their time in the religious "worship house" thinking
    about their sinful behavior the day before, whatever that was.  

    This is the OPPOSITE of what Catholic music should be.  We go to
    Mass not to contemplate our sins, like a dog returning to his vomit,
    and thus commit ANOTHER sin of pertinacity - which can become
    the sin against the Holy Ghost, the unpardonable sin, but in any case,
    it's the sin of attachment to past sins and revelry in them.  We don't
    do that at Mass, but what we do is to REPENT of our past sins, and
    REAFFIRM OUR ABJURATION of error in our past life, which includes
    any association we may have had with heresy, among which are
    Protestant heresies -- which many of us are reminded of when we
    hear songs like AMAZING GRACE, A MIGHTY FORTRESS IS OUR
    GOD, BRINGING IN THE SHEAVES, or WE SAT DOWN (by the river
    Jordan, etc.).  


    The point is, EVEN IF the words of the song are not even slightly offensive
    to pious ears,
    and if it has direct and obvious ties to Scripture, it makes
    NO DIFFERENCE
    , when the music melody is reminiscent of a Protestant
    or pagan or non-Catholic setting, OR when the words and the music
    together evoke memories of such non-Catholic settings, the music
    SHOULD NOT BE USED for Catholic Mass.



    When a bride selects her music for her wedding, does she
    ask them to play "Here comes the bride" for her walk down
    the aisle?  Maybe she does in the Newage One World Religion,
    but not at a Catholic Mass -- why?  Because it's not a pagan
    wedding.
     It is a Catholic wedding, and should evoke only the
    Catholic sentiments of what a marriage is all about -- things
    like an analogy to the mystical bride of Christ which is Holy
    Mother Church.



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