Author Topic: Nostra Aetate 2 (Read 986 times)

Disputaciones · « **on:** December 20, 2015, 08:17:08 PM »

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men."

Is there not some truth in these two sentences? I only want to get this aspect straight because for instance St. Thomas got the "good" of the pagan philosophers and I seem to have read that those things that were truly good in false religions were retained, so it's not all black and white.

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

Stubborn · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2015, 04:55:30 AM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men."

Is there not some truth in these two sentences? I only want to get this aspect straight because for instance St. Thomas got the "good" of the pagan philosophers and I seem to have read that those things that were truly good in false religions were retained, so it's not all black and white.

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

No, there is no truth in those to sentences.

What those sentences in effect are saying is the Catholic Church accepts these false religions.

2Vermont · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2015, 03:57:56 PM »

Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion. - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928

McCork · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2015, 06:12:11 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men."

Is there not some truth in these two sentences? I only want to get this aspect straight because for instance St. Thomas got the "good" of the pagan philosophers and I seem to have read that those things that were truly good in false religions were retained, so it's not all black and white.

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

First you have to recall that when Adam & Eve were created, they had perfect knowledge of the truths about God, morality and worship. After the fall, debilitated mankind fell apart, and the offspring of Adam and Even fell away to varying degrees, migrating, being banished, or whatever wayward sects they created. Of course these branching off groups retained truths, but those resulting groups had NO praise just because they retained some truths. The same if I were to deny the dogma of the Assumption and create a sect. Why should anyone praise me for having everything else that is "good"? Why? Nonsense. The Church says that calling into doubt that one dogma makes one fall COMPLETELY away from the truth faith.

Vatican II gives legitimacy to false religions. Religion is not "religion" unless it is Catholic. It is deceptive to say there is reverence for what false religions have that is true or good. It is misleading.

By the way, St. Thomas took what was good from the pagan Aristotle, but NOTHING that pertained to pagan belief. He only took was pertained to REASON. Most of what Aristotle wrote was superb reasoning. That would be NO excuse to say we have sincere reverence for what's good in paganism, because reasoning is a part of man, not a part of paganism.

Miseremini · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2015, 06:30:44 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

Perhaps they are thinking of scripture.

St. James chapt 2 verse 10
"And whosoever shall keep the whole law. but offend in one point, is become guilty of all."

Seems to be pretty clear.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2015, 09:57:32 PM »

There is no truth to those words. The Church never taught them before
1962. These words have been condemned by previous Popes and
Ecuмenical Councils.
Where was the Faith of the Bishops to allow this schema to pass.
The answer is this false belief was supported by the then setting
Pope who used his power to get it pass.
It is believed in the Third Message of Fatima that the "Apostasy
will start from the Top".

sword of the Spirit · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2015, 09:55:14 AM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men."

Is there not some truth in these two sentences? I only want to get this aspect straight because for instance St. Thomas got the "good" of the pagan philosophers and I seem to have read that those things that were truly good in false religions were retained, so it's not all black and white.

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

There is some truth, however beware of the subterfuge. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions of the devil because the Scriptures are true and Holy.

So the question is, Do Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυєs which contain the Old Testament (the true and Holy words of God) make the ѕуηαgσgυєs Holy? Or the people assembling there Holy? Obviously no.

The same can be said of the Novus Ordo/Protestants that possess the Gospels, Are their edifices Holy? Are those who meet there Holy? No.

The subterfuge is found via respect for the conduct, precepts and teachings that differ in many aspects from the Catholic Church...... this is just devilspeak which subconsciously conditions people to believe sanctification exists outside of the Catholic Church, which is false.

This can be attributed to those who strongly pushed modernist BoD in the early 20th century, which lead to people being in a state of grace who reject Christ, which lead to the "invisible christian", which lead to "you can't judge", which lead to the split second conversion, as the rope is about to snap the neck of the one committing ѕυιcιdє, to atheists are saved. All in the name of reverence and goodness.

clarkaim · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2015, 02:14:07 PM »

Quote from: McCork

Quote from: Disputaciones
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men."

Is there not some truth in these two sentences? I only want to get this aspect straight because for instance St. Thomas got the "good" of the pagan philosophers and I seem to have read that those things that were truly good in false religions were retained, so it's not all black and white.

It's just that I have seen many trads say that there is 0% truth or goodness in false religions and I want to be sure if this is indeed the case, that false religions are 100% worthless and 100% of what they have has to be rejected.

First you have to recall that when Adam & Eve were created, they had perfect knowledge of the truths about God, morality and worship. After the fall, debilitated mankind fell apart, and the offspring of Adam and Even fell away to varying degrees, migrating, being banished, or whatever wayward sects they created. Of course these branching off groups retained truths, but those resulting groups had NO praise just because they retained some truths. The same if I were to deny the dogma of the Assumption and create a sect. Why should anyone praise me for having everything else that is "good"? Why? Nonsense. The Church says that calling into doubt that one dogma makes one fall COMPLETELY away from the truth faith.

Vatican II gives legitimacy to false religions. Religion is not "religion" unless it is Catholic. It is deceptive to say there is reverence for what false religions have that is true or good. It is misleading.

By the way, St. Thomas took what was good from the pagan Aristotle, but NOTHING that pertained to pagan belief. He only took was pertained to REASON. Most of what Aristotle wrote was superb reasoning. That would be NO excuse to say we have sincere reverence for what's good in paganism, because reasoning is a part of man, not a part of paganism.

so you are saying, for example, I could go to Greece, avoid their schismatic sect, but it'd be ok to have some Gyro's and Ouzo? Makes sense to me.