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Offline Cantarella

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Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
« on: December 19, 2018, 10:35:59 AM »
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  • As a Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven from Bishop Barron


    Ben Shapiro recently had Bishop Robert Barron on his show. You can watch the full interview here. I want to draw our attention to one very specific question posed to the Bishop.

    Shapiro : “I’m a Jew. I follow the Law. Can I go to Heaven”? Part of interview is here.


    https://catholicism.org/as-a-non-believing-jew-ben-shapiro-gets-a-free-pass-to-heaven-from-bishop-barron.html


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 10:37:58 AM »
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  • Shapiro : “I’m a Jew. I follow the Law. Can I go to Heaven”?


    Quote
    Barron: “Yes…the Catholic view…go back to the 2nd Vatican Council says it very clearly….I mean Christ is the privileged route to salvation…that is the privileged route….However, Vatican II clearly teaches that someone outside the explicitly Christian faith can be saved….it might be received according to your conscience….Now that doesn’t conduce to a complete relativism…We would still say the privileged route and the route that God has offered to humanity is the route of His Son…but no, you can be saved..uh…even Vatican II says that an Atheist of good will can be saved…..because in following his conscience…John Henry Newman said the conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ in the soul…it is in fact the voice of Christ…when I follow my conscience, I’m following Him..whether I know it explicitly or not…so even the atheist of good will can be saved”.


    According to Barron (and 99% of Catholics out there today, including Traditional Catholics), Jesus is the "privileged" way to Heaven. Not the ONLY way.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 10:41:06 AM »
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  • So he says "yes" and then explains that "yes" not because Ben can convert, embrace Jesus Christ and His Church (and then of course no longer be a Jew) but "yes" because everyone basically already receives and believes Divine Revelation by virtue of Divine Immanence (not his exact wording of course, although probably a more accurate way of describing what Barron is really saying when he talks about conscience and the like).

    Nice job, Novus Ordo.  Staying true to your (modernistic and Judaized) roots!  
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 11:17:11 AM »
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  • For the NO, the only ones in danger of hell fire are those schismatical, no good traditional Catholics.
    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 11:51:12 AM »
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  • He's absolutely tripping all over himself, and babbling nonsensically, all out of human respect for and fear of the Jew.

    Does the dogma EENS have ANY meaning to these clowns?  It reduces to a meaningless formula, a mere tautology.  You cannot be saved except in the Church, but if you're saved, that means you're in the Church somehow.  Barron doesn't even give lip service to this in his shameful heretical response.  And this guy is considered to be some kind of arch-conservative in Novus Ordo circles.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #5 on: December 19, 2018, 11:55:18 AM »
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  • And he claims that even atheists can be saved (which Vatican II did NOT teach).

    NO CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN has ever taught this.  Even the broader understanding of EENS always required at least an explicit faith in the existence of God (as a Rewarder/Punisher).  So now, according to this heretic (he's not Catholic), no explicit material faith is required in order to have supernatural faith and sanctifying grace.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 11:57:36 AM »
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  • Yeah, the Antichrist apostate, Barron, has taught "even atheists can make it to Heaven" for a long time.

    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 12:10:19 PM »
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  • Shapiro : “I’m a Jew. I follow the Law. Can I go to Heaven”?

    Allow me to give the answer any Catholic would give.  It's very elaborate.

    No.  Next question, Ben.

    Instead Barron goes on interminably to explain away Catholic dogma.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 12:14:09 PM »
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  • Allow me to give the answer any Catholic would give.  It's very elaborate.

    No.  Next question, Ben.

    Instead Barron goes on interminably to explain away Catholic dogma.

    Of course, we have no shortage of Traditionalist priests and bishops who would tell Shapiro that he could be saved as a Jew.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 12:28:48 PM »
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  • Crazy. I was just watching this on Facebook, and begging the bishop to please say no... and he didn’t. It made me sad to think how even more people are going to not turn to the Catholic Faith for true salvation.... Shapiro has more power than what’s good for him.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 12:33:11 PM »
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  • Yeah, the Antichrist apostate, Barron, has taught "even atheists can make it to Heaven" for a long time.


    Wait!

    Wait just a moment!

    So, Father Barron gets a promotion to bishop after he states that "even atheists can make it to heaven."

    Wow!

    Blind leading blind.



    Didn't St. John Chrysostom state that in hell, the roads are paved with the skulls of priests, and the lampposts are the bishops?
    And for those who don't read the Church Fathers, then almost 1000 years later didn't Dante restate that in his Inferno?

    Isn't this why priests and bishops are to take very seriously their ordination and consecration?
    These men are called to serve the Church, and if they fail to lead Christ's flock to Heaven, then as false shepherds, they are damned to Hell.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 12:38:36 PM »
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  • Even though we are fighting the New World Ordo, and even if we were to get rid of the Rothschilds and the Illuminati, we must still beware that those who are unbelievers, especially the Jews, the Buddhists, and the New Agers could lead us into the End Times.

    This is what scares me about Francis. He has aligned himself with the Jews, the Buddhists, the Muslims, etc. This modernistic spirit of Ecumenism  promoted by Francis could be the basis for the New World Religion of the AntiChrist.

    Pray, pray for our children's sake, that this is not yet the time of the Beast, and that we will have a few years of peace in order to spread the Gospel of Christ throughout the world.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 08:29:00 PM »
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  • arch-conservative

    Today's liberalism is tomorrow's conservatism. Useless ideology.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 10:19:54 PM »
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  • .
    Wait!

    Wait just a moment!

    So, Father Barron gets a promotion to bishop after he states that "even atheists can make it to heaven."

    Wow!

    Blind leading blind.

    .
    Apparently in order to become a Novus Ordo bishop, you've got to be a heretic or some kind of Sodomite or child molester.
    .
    Traditionally, it is the Bishops of the world who are the true conservators of the Catholic Faith for future generations. 
        And they are the ones Our Lady has requested to make the Collegial Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart. 
        Thereby we would witness the miracle of Russia's conversion to the Catholic Faith.
        Now, it would take a miracle of its own for these heretic perverts to do the Consecration in the first place. 
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Non-Believing Jew Ben Shapiro Gets a Free Pass to Heaven
    « Reply #14 on: December 20, 2018, 01:20:55 AM »
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  • From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
    A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church

     

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