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Author Topic: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!  (Read 4098 times)

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Offline Texana

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Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2024, 11:38:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 28, 2024, 11:20:14 AM
    If +Vigano didn't say "yes" then there's no election, it's simply a group of random people who decided to take a vote.

    Please provide proof that 1) +Vigano is even aware of this "vote", 2) his response and date.
    Dear Pax Vobis,

    The election took place, regardless of Bishop Vigano's answer. Remember Cardinal Siri? Please see the entire OP!

    The bishops issued an Open Letter to Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano (please see the OP).

    "The only thing we do not know is whether or not he said, "Yes".  Perhaps we should make Bishop Vigano aware of his election to the Papacy today, and ask if he accepts the office?
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    Offline Texana

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #16 on: June 28, 2024, 11:43:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 28, 2024, 11:34:17 AM
    I'd be happy if either he or Bishop Williamson would just publicly announce it. 
    Dear 2Vermont,

    Yes!  Today would be a great time, but God alone knows the perfect time.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #17 on: June 28, 2024, 11:47:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 28, 2024, 11:34:17 AM
    I'd be happy if either he or Bishop Williamson would just publicly announce it. 

    Again, what does this have to do with you?  You're not served by priests ordained by +Vigano.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #18 on: June 28, 2024, 11:59:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 28, 2024, 11:47:57 AM
    Again, what does this have to do with you?  You're not served by priests ordained by +Vigano.
    As if you wouldn't want a public announcement if you weren't "in the know".  Why are you so unable to let others want a public confirmation?  When it comes to this topic you should just shut up.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #19 on: June 28, 2024, 12:03:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Texana on June 28, 2024, 11:43:20 AM
    Dear 2Vermont,

    Yes!  Today would be a great time, but God alone knows the perfect time.
    It's been months and I still scratch my head wondering what's the hold-up?  Why is it a secret except to just a few special people?
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    Offline Texana

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #20 on: June 29, 2024, 09:36:04 AM »
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    • Wait a minute! 

    Bishop Vigano is already excommunicated!  Since Bishop Williamson was excommunicated for consecrating bishops without the Papal Mandate, so are all the bishops he consecrates.  Since we are told that Bishop Vigano received conditional consecration from Bishop Williamson, Bishop Vigano is also excommunicated from the Conciliar sect!!

    Woo-hoo!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #21 on: June 29, 2024, 11:15:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Texana on June 29, 2024, 09:36:04 AM
    Wait a minute!

    Bishop Vigano is already excommunicated!  Since Bishop Williamson was excommunicated for consecrating bishops without the Papal Mandate, so are all the bishops he consecrates.  Since we are told that Bishop Vigano received conditional consecration from Bishop Williamson, Bishop Vigano is also excommunicated from the Conciliar sect!!

    Woo-hoo!

    Correct.  There is, however, a difference between simple excommunication and a declaration of being a schismatic.  One can be excommunicated without being a schismatic.

    Although he's not really excommunicated from the Catholic Church, since the Canon Law assumes that there's actually a Pope there from whom one might request permission to consecrate.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #22 on: June 29, 2024, 11:19:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 28, 2024, 11:59:57 AM
    As if you wouldn't want a public announcement if you weren't "in the know".  Why are you so unable to let others want a public confirmation?  When it comes to this topic you should just shut up.

    No, you need to shut up.  You've persisted in slandering +Vigano since the very beginning and refuse to let up.  It makes absolutely no difference to you whether +Vigano publicly declares his conditional consecration, since you're not served by any priests he's ordained.  You're just looking for one more reason to attack +Vigano, in a long line of attacks.  Then, when his conditional consecration does become fully public, you'll find something else.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #23 on: June 29, 2024, 11:50:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 29, 2024, 11:19:23 AM
    No, you need to shut up.  You've persisted in slandering +Vigano since the very beginning and refuse to let up.  It makes absolutely no difference to you whether +Vigano publicly declares his conditional consecration, since you're not served by any priests he's ordained.  You're just looking for one more reason to attack +Vigano, in a long line of attacks.  Then, when his conditional consecration does become fully public, you'll find something else.

    Vermont is just being cautious, and rightly so. Even though I’m 95% on board with Vigano, I too would like a public confirmation of his consecration.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #24 on: June 29, 2024, 12:49:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 28, 2024, 10:08:57 AM
    I know an individual who speaks regularly with Bishop Williamson and who told me that Bishop Williamson personally confirmed the conditional consecration to him.  I know another individual who is in contact with Father Chazal, who in turn is in contact with Bishop Williamson, who states that Father Chazal the same thing to him.  Finally, the forum moderator Matthew stated that the conditional consecration was confirmed by him as fact.

    This is good enough for me, but I do think he needs to eventually come out publicly with this information. BTW: his latest writing is absolutely excellent! 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #25 on: June 29, 2024, 01:02:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 29, 2024, 12:49:27 PM
    This is good enough for me, but I do think he needs to eventually come out publicly with this information. BTW: his latest writing is absolutely excellent!

    I think that it would be required if it affects the faithful publicly.  If he starts, for instance, ordaining priests, consecrating holy oils, etc.  Apart from some kind of practical implications that affect the Church in some way, it's just a curiosity IMO.  People want to hear that he was conditionally consecrated because that means he has positive doubt about the NO Rite of Holy Orders.  What I find humorous is that he was "consecrated" by none other than "Saint" John Paul II Wojtyla "the Great".  People want to know ... but they don't really need to know.  +Vigano could make the same statements he's making even if he were simply a priest.  Other people use it as a reason to attack him if he's NOT conditionally consecrated.  But there's no practical need to know in either case.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #26 on: June 29, 2024, 01:28:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 29, 2024, 01:02:03 PM
    I think that it would be required if it affects the faithful publicly.  If he starts, for instance, ordaining priests, consecrating holy oils, etc.  Apart from some kind of practical implications that affect the Church in some way, it's just a curiosity IMO.  People want to hear that he was conditionally consecrated because that means he has positive doubt about the NO Rite of Holy Orders.  What I find humorous is that he was "consecrated" by none other than "Saint" John Paul II Wojtyla "the Great".  People want to know ... but they don't really need to know.  +Vigano could make the same statements he's making even if he were simply a priest.  Other people use it as a reason to attack him if he's NOT conditionally consecrated.  But there's no practical need to know in either case.

    I disagree. He’s a public figure and we’re in the midst of the worst crisis that the Church has ever experienced. The faithful need certitude and openness in a deceptive and deceitful society. 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #27 on: June 29, 2024, 01:38:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 29, 2024, 01:28:52 PM
    I disagree. He’s a public figure and we’re in the midst of the worst crisis that the Church has ever experienced. The faithful need certitude and openness in a deceptive and deceitful society.

    And I disagree with your disagreement.  Why do they need certitude about an individual's episcopal consecration if there's no practical impact?  Certitude about doctrine, yes.  Certitude about who the pope is (under normal circuмstances), yes.  But about the Orders of a specific individual with whom I have no connections?  Bishop Williamson did other secret consecrations and then the SSPV kept a lid on theirs from Bishop Mendez for a couple of years (and could have been longer had he lived longer).  In neither of those cases, either, was there a need to know.  Now if the SSPV had started sending out new priests ordained by +Kelly, that would have been a different matter.  I need certitude about the priests I receive Sacraments from, but not so much about some guy in Argentina that I never heard of.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #28 on: June 29, 2024, 02:30:34 PM »
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    • Quote
    The election took place
    You obviously don’t understand the difference between a vote and a valid election.  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: No One Can Judge the Rightful Pope!
    « Reply #29 on: June 29, 2024, 02:31:49 PM »
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    • Quote
    Vermont is just being cautious, and rightly so. 
    One can be cautious without being slanderous and uncharitable. 
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