Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Matthew on January 27, 2009, 11:22:20 AM

Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: Matthew on January 27, 2009, 11:22:20 AM
Talk all you want about Bishop Williamson and the recent lifting of the excommunications.

Whatever people what to talk about, I'll let them talk about it here (within reason).

What good is a message board if you can't talk about the topics that are important to you?

(And yes, there is a point to all this -- "other Catholic fora" are currently forbidding discussion of Bishop Williamson)

Actually, since he made it a public statement, I'm going to quote it here. This is from Servitum, the owner of Angelqueen:
Quote

I need a break from Bishop Williamson. For the time being, I'll be removing any Bishop Williamson threads I see. The AQ management has better things to do than spend 24/7 moderating threads having him as the subject.

Some here have waited two decades for the excomms to be removed. Instead of celebrating and popping the champagne we're spending our time answering to H.E.'s foolish and extremely poorly timed statements.

Not only has this been a problem for AQ, but trads and SSPX supporters the world over. A seminary in Germany has been raided and European District Superiors are having to be interviewed by police. Of course these thuggish tactics are reprehensible, but thus is the world.

FWIW, I know for a fact that most his colleagues in the society - high and low - are furious with him.

What should be done? His Excellency should issue and apology for the problems he's caused everyone, then crawl under a rock for a while until this all blows over.

As for me, I'm done with him here for quite some time.


I disagree that everyone "high and low" is furious with the good Bishop. I don't think Servitum knows that many SSPX priests or Faithful. He has a tendency to make broad generalizations based on a small sample.

I know he's full of it for one simple reason -- he disagrees with the Bishop on most things. He is NOT somehow the "most Catholic forum owner" just because he runs a forum with primarily SSPX members. On the contrary -- a bunch of the members there dislike Bishop Williamson.

They don't hold as much truth as the good Bishop -- so that is a mar on their "perfection" -- not necessarily sinful, but they certainly have a less than perfect love of the truth. Maybe it's the influence of the world?

I, however, applaud the Bishop as a modern-day Athanasius and a brave, virtuous truth-teller.

Matthew
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: Dawn on January 27, 2009, 11:36:31 AM
Thanks Matthew, why would they do this? Embarrasement because they are sooo very open-minded?
Well, my husband received an e-mail from an acquintance (Lutheran husband and his Jєωιѕн wife) slamming Andrew for being a part of a Church that would harbour such a man as Williamson. Andrew wants to know where he can begin to read what the good Bishop thinks and also, where I got the "idea's" about Jews controlling the world. So, while I do have a couple of books, where do you recommend I send his to start learning truth? Baby-steps I guess , then building.
Thanks for the advice
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: gladius_veritatis on January 27, 2009, 12:31:17 PM
How about Judaism Discovered by Michael Hoffman, or Judaism's Strange Gods, by the same author?  Or the Gospel?  St. John Chrysostom's sermons on the Jews?  Try Fr. Fahey's works, Fr. Cahill; search the Christian Book Club site - http://www.omnicbc.com  Mr. Serpico has been gathering outstanding titles for decades.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: gladius_veritatis on January 27, 2009, 12:34:00 PM
The CBC site has several good titles on the myth of the 6M, etc.  The good man I mentioned, Mr. Serpico, even dug through his stacks to find me a copy of the Catechism of Trent he put out 20 year ago.  It is a better translation than McHugh and Callan, done by an Irish priest in 1829.  There is LOTS of evidence on-line, too.  Google away, and the truth just might find you.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 27, 2009, 12:41:33 PM
Servitum is acting like a gutless coward. The Williamson haters are also gutless cowards giving into the world and Christ's enemies. They will answer for this at their judgement.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 27, 2009, 12:44:18 PM
It is because of such cowards such as these that jewry is kept in bondage to the тαℓмυd and the rabbis because they lack the courage to spread the truth. As what would be considered an "ethnic jew", they make me sick.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: Matthew on January 27, 2009, 12:54:38 PM
That's a good point -- by speaking the truth about the Jews, he is actually doing them more of a favor than the Neo-Cons, who favor everything Israel does, but do nothing to remove the veil from their eyes and hearts.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: Dawn on January 27, 2009, 01:18:38 PM
Thanks for the ideas. And, believe me I am figuring out how to afford Michael's Book. I think I will have him dig around there. I forgot about the CBC.
I think the most sickening headline I have read to date regarding Williamson was that the Vatican was rebuking him. I gave up on Angelqueen a while ago. There form of censorship smacked of Uncle Joe's Russia. I was proud to be "banned." As far as FE goes, well, they are more worried of keeping up to date on the latest sin's of the flesh as the Blessed Virgin referred to such things. It is kind of like Cosmo magazine if you ask me.
The world is about to get another wake up call. If Netanyahu (sp) wins the election ( and there is no reason to think otherwise at this point) he will ratchet up attacks on Palestine and most likely Iran. This much to the dismay of the Great Obama, who wishes peace with "his people" after the "Mistakes America has made." The will see Israel's rabid fangs.
Oh well, that is another thread I guess.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 27, 2009, 02:07:13 PM
I forgot about Netanyahu's coming election. This should be fun.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 27, 2009, 02:32:04 PM
One would probably do well to  stay away from Hoffman as he is a v2 'catholic'. His patrner Mr Hiembichner is a friend of the v2 mr Vennari. Lots of exposing of judaics but no Real Presence.

Isabella of Spain by Walsh is my favorite. Right now I am reading Boase-- Boniface Eighth=== also highly recommended.

http://used.addall.com

Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: gladius_veritatis on January 27, 2009, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: Dawn
And, believe me I am figuring out how to afford Michael's Book.


I know him, and would be happy to see if he will give it you at cost.  Even if he cannot, I will gladly buy it, or part of it, for you.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: gladius_veritatis on January 27, 2009, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: roscoe
One would probably do well to  stay away from Hoffman as he is a v2 'catholic'.


As someone who has met him, and discussed involved matters of religion, etc., at length, I have to tell you some bad news: You do not know what the hell you are talking about.  He is brilliant and kind, and, as you are unable to edit, you owe him an apology.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: gladius_veritatis on January 27, 2009, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: sedetrad
I forgot about Netanyahu's coming election. This should be fun.


02.10.09 - Get ready, folks.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 27, 2009, 03:50:38 PM
Roscoe, you are quite wrong. Mr. Hoffman is a traditional Catholic that attend a SSPX chapel with his family.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 27, 2009, 03:55:34 PM
Hopefully GV is correct and I owe mr Hoffman an apology. However--1) Mr Hoffman's site attacks the Challoner version of the Douay Rhiems Bible( as does TCW btw)

2) While this may sound like a broken record to some, Mr Hoffman's friends--Mr Hiembichner and Mr Vennari( among others) are still holding to the preposterous idea that Card Rampolla was a 'secret occult mason in the OTO'. This is nothing less than an attack on the character of Popes Leo XIII, St Pius X as well as Card Merry Del Val. One might as well attack St Athanasius, St Ambrose or even St Thomas and imo, you might as well throw the whole Church away at that point.

I hope Mr Hoffman is a true Catholic

Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 27, 2009, 04:38:28 PM
Acc to sedetrad, Mr Hoffman attends SSPX chapel and the SSPX position is that the v2 'popes' are legitimate. At the same time the SSPX denys the authority of the v2 'council'. So I guess it is debatable whether Mr Hoffman is a v2 'catholic'.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2009, 04:22:04 PM
GV--could you clarify?  A prev post in this discussion id's mr Hoffman as SSPX. If my memory is correct, you are a 'sede' who rejects SSPX but are never the less referring to mr Hoffman as a legitimate Catholic-- I am somewhat confused.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 29, 2009, 04:42:55 PM
I have spoken to gladius many times and I think he is of like mind with me on this issue. Although gladius and I consider ourselves sede, we do not condemn those who attend the sspx as non-Catholics. We both realize that we live in "unprecedented" times and it would be insane to judge them as non-Catholics. Gladius can elaborate further if I have answered for him incorrectly.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2009, 05:06:57 PM
Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?  

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: trad123 on January 29, 2009, 05:26:56 PM
Quote from: roscoe
Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?  

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart


Roscoe, I don't know what you think of Rama Coomaraswamy, but here is an article by him that answers that charge:

Quote
Cracks in the Masonry
Rama Coomaraswamy MD
Was SSPX founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre invalidly ordained by a Mason? (1) What's the historical evidence? (2) If true, would it have invalidated his ordination? (3) How did the Church in the past treat Holy Orders conferred by Masonic prelates? A Coomaraswamy classic. (The Roman Catholic, June 1982)


http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=85&catname=14
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on January 29, 2009, 05:29:47 PM
If Leinart was a mason, it WOULD NOT cause him to lose his powers as a bishop. He could still make other bishops.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2009, 05:42:48 PM
Acc to Paul IV in the above link, it would indeed make all of Lefevbre's actions invalid. I put a little more faith in the Pope as opposed to Mr Coomswarmy who acc to the link hid the fact that lienart was a mason.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: Matthew on January 29, 2009, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: roscoe
Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?  

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart


That's an old, worn-out charge.

There was another bishop there co-consecrating, so EVEN IF the masonic Bishop Lienart had the secret intention to make a peanut butter sandwich instead of what the ritual obviously signified (i.e., consecrate a bishop), the other bishop would have conferred the Episcopacy on Fr. Lefebvre.

So regardless of Bishop Lienart's intention, Archbishop Lefebvre was validly consecrated.

The Church provides for all kinds of situations. She really has a lot of things covered!

Matthew
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: trad123 on January 29, 2009, 07:02:36 PM
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2009, 07:47:47 PM
Who was the other Bishop with the v2 mason Lienart?
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on February 05, 2009, 03:24:36 PM
There was a poster over at reasonradionetwork( Cherished Heart) who was saying Lefevbre himself was a mason. I am still wondering who the other bishop was at his consecration as I do not trust SSPX-- sorry.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on February 06, 2009, 06:10:48 PM
He reminds me of Erasmus-- seems to be Catholic but yet there are nagging doubts about him. Is he( and poss Williamson) part of a plot to ID all Catholics( even v2 schismatics) as h0Ɩ0cαųst deniers?
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on February 09, 2009, 11:12:57 PM
With all the people associated with SSPX in this Forum-- no one can come up with the name of the other Bishop whom assisted at the consecration of Lefevbre? If Lienart was a mason then he definitly has no right to administer the sacraments.

Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on February 09, 2009, 11:14:57 PM
4 lines above should read-- all professing Catholics....
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: MaterDominici on February 09, 2009, 11:31:57 PM
Quote from: roscoe
With all the people associated with SSPX in this Forum-- no one can come up with the name of the other Bishop whom assisted at the consecration of Lefevbre? If Lienart was a mason then he definitly has no right to administer the sacraments.



I think Matthew confused your original question. As far as I know, only one bishop was present for Lefebvre's priestly ordination--Lienart. Both Lienart and another bishop--Ancel--presided over his episcopal consecration.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: roscoe on February 13, 2009, 12:19:55 AM
Then Lefevbre's ordination is invalid--- a disinterested third party can sometimes administer a sacrament such as baptism but  I would imagine that under Canon Law, a cleric is no cleric at all if he has taken an oath of hostility to Holy Church. And if one is not validly ordained, I cannot see how he would even be eligible for episcopal consecration.

I still want to know from where the accusation of Mrs Martinez comes. As mentioned before, two of her primary sources are extensive private interviews with the names of Lefevbe and Williamson.

The Particular books in her biblio that I prchased in search of the charge that Marcantonio Pacelli actually was an employee of the Rothschild bank are devoid of the accusation.
Title: No locked threads here!
Post by: sedetrad on February 13, 2009, 05:12:44 AM
Roscoe,

Study the french revolution where the french bishops that took the civil oath were still able to ordain valid priests. The popes have all said this. If a person is to use a fine tooth comb to find every  freemasonic bishop and then assume the priests that those bishops made and then those priests who later became bishops made more priests were invalid would lead to a situation of insanity in the Church.