Author Topic: No locked threads here! (Read 4379 times)

roscoe · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:38:28 PM »

Acc to sedetrad, Mr Hoffman attends SSPX chapel and the SSPX position is that the v2 'popes' are legitimate. At the same time the SSPX denys the authority of the v2 'council'. So I guess it is debatable whether Mr Hoffman is a v2 'catholic'.

roscoe · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2009, 04:22:04 PM »

GV--could you clarify? A prev post in this discussion id's mr Hoffman as SSPX. If my memory is correct, you are a 'sede' who rejects SSPX but are never the less referring to mr Hoffman as a legitimate Catholic-- I am somewhat confused.

sedetrad · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2009, 04:42:55 PM »

I have spoken to gladius many times and I think he is of like mind with me on this issue. Although gladius and I consider ourselves sede, we do not condemn those who attend the sspx as non-Catholics. We both realize that we live in "unprecedented" times and it would be insane to judge them as non-Catholics. Gladius can elaborate further if I have answered for him incorrectly.

roscoe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:06:57 PM »

Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart

trad123 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:26:56 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart

Roscoe, I don't know what you think of Rama Coomaraswamy, but here is an article by him that answers that charge:

Quote

Cracks in the Masonry
Rama Coomaraswamy MD
Was SSPX founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre invalidly ordained by a Mason? (1) What's the historical evidence? (2) If true, would it have invalidated his ordination? (3) How did the Church in the past treat Holy Orders conferred by Masonic prelates? A Coomaraswamy classic. (The Roman Catholic, June 1982)

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=85&catname=14

sedetrad · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:29:47 PM »

If Leinart was a mason, it WOULD NOT cause him to lose his powers as a bishop. He could still make other bishops.

roscoe · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:42:48 PM »

Acc to Paul IV in the above link, it would indeed make all of Lefevbre's actions invalid. I put a little more faith in the Pope as opposed to Mr Coomswarmy who acc to the link hid the fact that lienart was a mason.

Matthew · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2009, 06:38:19 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Fair enough but if the following link to tcw is correct, Marcel Lefevbre was not even in priestly orders( being 'ordained' by a freemasonic imposter). Where does this leave SSPX?

http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/jul08tcw.htm#cuм-ex-lienart

That's an old, worn-out charge.

There was another bishop there co-consecrating, so EVEN IF the masonic Bishop Lienart had the secret intention to make a peanut butter sandwich instead of what the ritual obviously signified (i.e., consecrate a bishop), the other bishop would have conferred the Episcopacy on Fr. Lefebvre.

So regardless of Bishop Lienart's intention, Archbishop Lefebvre was validly consecrated.

The Church provides for all kinds of situations. She really has a lot of things covered!

Matthew

trad123 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2009, 07:02:36 PM »

roscoe · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2009, 07:47:47 PM »

Who was the other Bishop with the v2 mason Lienart?

roscoe · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2009, 03:24:36 PM »

There was a poster over at reasonradionetwork( Cherished Heart) who was saying Lefevbre himself was a mason. I am still wondering who the other bishop was at his consecration as I do not trust SSPX-- sorry.

roscoe · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:10:48 PM »

He reminds me of Erasmus-- seems to be Catholic but yet there are nagging doubts about him. Is he( and poss Williamson) part of a plot to ID all Catholics( even v2 schismatics) as h0Ɩ0cαųst deniers?

roscoe · « **Reply #27 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:12:57 PM »

With all the people associated with SSPX in this Forum-- no one can come up with the name of the other Bishop whom assisted at the consecration of Lefevbre? If Lienart was a mason then he definitly has no right to administer the sacraments.

roscoe · « **Reply #28 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:14:57 PM »

4 lines above should read-- all professing Catholics....

MaterDominici · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:31:57 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

With all the people associated with SSPX in this Forum-- no one can come up with the name of the other Bishop whom assisted at the consecration of Lefevbre? If Lienart was a mason then he definitly has no right to administer the sacraments.

I think Matthew confused your original question. As far as I know, only one bishop was present for Lefebvre's priestly ordination--Lienart. Both Lienart and another bishop--Ancel--presided over his episcopal consecration.