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Offline Miseremini

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No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
« on: October 28, 2017, 08:44:20 PM »
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  • I copied the following from today's LifeSite News.  :facepalm:

    CATHOLIC CHURCHFri Oct 27, 2017 - 7:08 pm EST
    Pope Francis has abolished hell, purgatory, heaven: papal confidant
     Eugenio Scalfari, , Heaven And Hell , Pope Francis , Sandro Magister
    October 27, 2017 (Sandro Magister) — In the important newspaper “la Repubblica” of which he is the founder, Eugenio Scalfari, an undisputed authority of Italian secular thought, last October 9 returned to speaking in the following terms about what he sees as a “revolution” of this pontificate, in comments by Francis that are derived from his frequents conversations with him:
    “Pope Francis has abolished the places where souls were supposed to go after death: hell, purgatory, heaven. The idea he holds is that souls dominated by evil and unrepentant cease to exist, while those that have been redeemed from evil will be taken up into beatitude, contemplating God.”
    Observing immediately afterward:
    “The universal judgment that is in the tradition of the Church therefore becomes devoid of meaning. It remains a simple pretext that has given rise to splendid paintings in the history of art. Nothing other than this.”
    It is seriously doubtful that Pope Francis really wants to get rid of the “last things” in the terms described by Scalfari.
    There is in his preaching, however, something that tends toward a practical overshadowing of the final judgment and of the opposite destinies of blessed and damned.
    *
    On Wednesday, October 11, at the general audience in Saint Peter’s Square, Francis said that such a judgment is not to be feared, because “at the end of our history there is the merciful Jesus,” and therefore “everything will be saved. Everything.”
    In the text distributed to the journalists accredited to the Holy See, this last word, “everything,” was emphasized in boldface.
    *
    At another general audience a few months ago, on Wednesday, August 23, Francis gave for the end of history an image that is entirely and only comforting: that of “an immense tent, where God will welcome all mankind so as to dwell with them definitively.”
    An image that is not his own but is taken from chapter 21 of Revelation, but from which Francis was careful not to cite the following words of Jesus:
    “The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
    *
    And again, in commenting during the Angelus of Sunday, October 15 on the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22: 1-14) that was read at all the Masses on that day, Francis carefully avoided citing the most unsettling parts.
    Both that in which “the king became indignant, sent his troops, had those murderers killed and their city burned.”
    And that in which, having seen “one man who was not wearing the wedding garment,” the king ordered his servants: “Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness; there shall be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth.”
    *
    On the previous Sunday, October 8, another parable, that of the murderous vine dressers (Matthew 21:33-43), had undergone the same selective treatment.
    In commenting on the parable during the Angelus, the pope left out what the owner of the vineyard does to those farmers who killed the servants and finally the son: “He will put those wretches to a miserable death.” Much less did he cite the concluding words of Jesus, referring to himself as the “cornerstone”: “He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but when it falls on any one, it will crush him.”
    Instead, Pope Francis insisted on defending God from the accusation of being vindictive, almost as if wanting to mitigate the excesses of “justice” detected in the parable:
    “It is here that the great news of Christianity is found: a God who, in spite of being disappointed by our mistakes and our sins, does not go back on his word, does not stop, and above all does not avenge himself! Brothers and sisters, God does not avenge himself! God loves, he does not avenge himself, he waits for us to forgive us, to embrace us.”
    *
    In the homily for the feast of Pentecost, last June 4, Francis argued, as he often does, against “those who judge.” And in citing the words of the risen Jesus to the apostles and implicitly to their successors in the Church (John 20:22-23), he intentionally cut them off halfway through:
    “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they will be forgiven.”
    Omitting the following:
    “Those you do not forgive, they will not be forgiven.”
    And the fact that the truncation was deliberate is proven by its repititon. Because Francis had made the exact same deletion of the words of Jesus on the previous April 23, at the Regina Coeli of the first Sunday after Easter.
    *
    Last May 12 as well, while visiting Fatima, Francis showed that he wanted to set Jesus free from his reputation as an inflexible judge at the end of time. And to do this he warned against the following false image of Mary:
    “A Mary of our own making: one who restrains the arm of a vengeful God; one sweeter than Jesus the ruthless judge.”
    *
    It must be added that the liberty with which Pope Francis cuts and stitches up the words of Sacred Scripture does not concern only the universal judgment. Deafening, for example, is the silence in which he has always shrouded Jesus’ condemnation of adultery (Matthew 19:2-11 and parallel passages).
    In a surprising coincidence, this condemnation was contained in the Gospel passage that was read in all the churches of the world precisely on the Sunday of the beginning of the second session of the synod of bishops on the family, October 4, 2015. But neither in the homily nor at the Angelus on that day did Pope Francis make the slightest reference to it.
    Nor did he make any reference to it at the Angelus of Sunday February 12, 2017, when that condemnation was once again read in all the churches.
    Not only that. The words of Jesus against adultery also do not appear in the two hundred pages of the post-synodal exhortation “Amoris Laetitia.”
    Just as no appearance is made in it by the terrible words of condemnation of homosexuality written by the apostle Paul in the first chapter of the Letter to the Romans.
    A first chapter that was also read - another coincidence - at the weekday Masses of the second week of the synod of 2015. To tell the truth, those words are not included in the missal. But in any case, neither the pope nor anyone else ever cited them while discussions were being held at the synod about changing the paradigms of judgment on homosexuality:
    "Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them" (Romani 1, 26-32).
    *
    Moreover, at times Pope Francis even takes the liberty of rewriting the words of Sacred Scripture as he sees fit.
    For example, in the morning homily at Santa Marta on September 4, 2014, at a certain point the pope attributed to Saint Paul these “scandalous” words: “I boast only of my sins.” And he concluded by inviting the faithful present to “boast” of their own sins, in that they have been forgiven from the cross by Jesus.
    But in none of Paul’s letters can such an expression be found. The apostle instead says of himself: “If it is necessary to boast, I will boast of my weaknesses” (2 Corinthians 11:30), after having listed all the hardships of his life - the imprisonments, the floggings, the shipwrecks.
    Or: “About myself I will not boast, except of my weaknesses” (2 Corinthians 12:5). Or again: “He said to me: ‘My grace is enough for you; strength is in fact made fully manifest in weakness.’ I will therefore gladly boast of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me” (2 Corinthians 12:9), with more references to the outrages, persecutions, anguish he has suffered.
    *
    Coming back to the final judgment, Pope Benedict XVI also acknowledged that "in the modern era, the idea of the Last Judgement has faded into the background.”
    But in the encyclical “Spe Salvi,” which he wrote entirely on his own, he forcefully reaffirmed that the last judgment is “the decisive image of hope.” It is an image that “evokes responsibility,” because “grace does not cancel out justice,” but on the contrary “the question of justice constitutes the essential argument, or in any case the strongest argument, in favour of faith in eternal life,” because “with the impossibility that the injustice of history should be the final word does the necessity for Christ's return and for new life become fully convincing.”
    And again:
    “Grace does not make wrong into right. It is not a sponge which wipes everything away, so that whatever someone has done on earth ends up being of equal value. Dostoevsky was right to protest against this kind of Heaven and this kind of grace in his novel ‘The Brothers Karamazov.’ Evildoers, in the end, do not sit at table at the eternal banquet beside their victims without distinction, as though nothing had happened.”
    (English translation by Matthew Sherry, Ballwin, Missouri, U.S.A.)

    This article was originally published on the Sandro Magister blog in L'Ezpresso Magazine and is republished with permission. Magister is an  Italian journalist who specializes in religious news, in particular on the Catholic Church and the Vatican.  His reports, from a fiathful Catholic perspective, have been considered exceptionally reliable and are widely read. See his bio here.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 08:51:33 PM »
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  • TL; DR: "Francis Still Heretic, Still Not Pope."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #2 on: October 28, 2017, 10:36:15 PM »
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  • The bible warns us of false teachers.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline poche

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #3 on: October 28, 2017, 11:32:49 PM »
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  • I copied the following from today's LifeSite News.  :facepalm:

    CATHOLIC CHURCHFri Oct 27, 2017 - 7:08 pm EST
    Pope Francis has abolished hell, purgatory, heaven: papal confidant
    Eugenio Scalfari, , Heaven And Hell , Pope Francis , Sandro Magister
    October 27, 2017 (Sandro Magister) — In the important newspaper “la Repubblica” of which he is the founder, Eugenio Scalfari, an undisputed authority of Italian secular thought, last October 9 returned to speaking in the following terms about what he sees as a “revolution” of this pontificate, in comments by Francis that are derived from his frequents conversations with him:
    “Pope Francis has abolished the places where souls were supposed to go after death: hell, purgatory, heaven. The idea he holds is that souls dominated by evil and unrepentant cease to exist, while those that have been redeemed from evil will be taken up into beatitude, contemplating God.”
    Observing immediately afterward:
    “The universal judgment that is in the tradition of the Church therefore becomes devoid of meaning. It remains a simple pretext that has given rise to splendid paintings in the history of art. Nothing other than this.”
    It is seriously doubtful that Pope Francis really wants to get rid of the “last things” in the terms described by Scalfari.
    There is in his preaching, however, something that tends toward a practical overshadowing of the final judgment and of the opposite destinies of blessed and damned.
    *
    On Wednesday, October 11, at the general audience in Saint Peter’s Square, Francis said that such a judgment is not to be feared, because “at the end of our history there is the merciful Jesus,” and therefore “everything will be saved. Everything.”
    In the text distributed to the journalists accredited to the Holy See, this last word, “everything,” was emphasized in boldface.
    *
    At another general audience a few months ago, on Wednesday, August 23, Francis gave for the end of history an image that is entirely and only comforting: that of “an immense tent, where God will welcome all mankind so as to dwell with them definitively.”
    An image that is not his own but is taken from chapter 21 of Revelation, but from which Francis was careful not to cite the following words of Jesus:
    “The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
    *
    And again, in commenting during the Angelus of Sunday, October 15 on the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22: 1-14) that was read at all the Masses on that day, Francis carefully avoided citing the most unsettling parts.
    Both that in which “the king became indignant, sent his troops, had those murderers killed and their city burned.”
    And that in which, having seen “one man who was not wearing the wedding garment,” the king ordered his servants: “Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness; there shall be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth.”
    *
    On the previous Sunday, October 8, another parable, that of the murderous vine dressers (Matthew 21:33-43), had undergone the same selective treatment.
    In commenting on the parable during the Angelus, the pope left out what the owner of the vineyard does to those farmers who killed the servants and finally the son: “He will put those wretches to a miserable death.” Much less did he cite the concluding words of Jesus, referring to himself as the “cornerstone”: “He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but when it falls on any one, it will crush him.”
    Instead, Pope Francis insisted on defending God from the accusation of being vindictive, almost as if wanting to mitigate the excesses of “justice” detected in the parable:
    “It is here that the great news of Christianity is found: a God who, in spite of being disappointed by our mistakes and our sins, does not go back on his word, does not stop, and above all does not avenge himself! Brothers and sisters, God does not avenge himself! God loves, he does not avenge himself, he waits for us to forgive us, to embrace us.”
    *
    In the homily for the feast of Pentecost, last June 4, Francis argued, as he often does, against “those who judge.” And in citing the words of the risen Jesus to the apostles and implicitly to their successors in the Church (John 20:22-23), he intentionally cut them off halfway through:
    “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they will be forgiven.”
    Omitting the following:
    “Those you do not forgive, they will not be forgiven.”
    And the fact that the truncation was deliberate is proven by its repititon. Because Francis had made the exact same deletion of the words of Jesus on the previous April 23, at the Regina Coeli of the first Sunday after Easter.
    *
    Last May 12 as well, while visiting Fatima, Francis showed that he wanted to set Jesus free from his reputation as an inflexible judge at the end of time. And to do this he warned against the following false image of Mary:
    “A Mary of our own making: one who restrains the arm of a vengeful God; one sweeter than Jesus the ruthless judge.”
    *
    It must be added that the liberty with which Pope Francis cuts and stitches up the words of Sacred Scripture does not concern only the universal judgment. Deafening, for example, is the silence in which he has always shrouded Jesus’ condemnation of adultery (Matthew 19:2-11 and parallel passages).
    In a surprising coincidence, this condemnation was contained in the Gospel passage that was read in all the churches of the world precisely on the Sunday of the beginning of the second session of the synod of bishops on the family, October 4, 2015. But neither in the homily nor at the Angelus on that day did Pope Francis make the slightest reference to it.
    Nor did he make any reference to it at the Angelus of Sunday February 12, 2017, when that condemnation was once again read in all the churches.
    Not only that. The words of Jesus against adultery also do not appear in the two hundred pages of the post-synodal exhortation “Amoris Laetitia.”
    Just as no appearance is made in it by the terrible words of condemnation of homosexuality written by the apostle Paul in the first chapter of the Letter to the Romans.
    A first chapter that was also read - another coincidence - at the weekday Masses of the second week of the synod of 2015. To tell the truth, those words are not included in the missal. But in any case, neither the pope nor anyone else ever cited them while discussions were being held at the synod about changing the paradigms of judgment on homosexuality:
    "Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them" (Romani 1, 26-32).
    *
    Moreover, at times Pope Francis even takes the liberty of rewriting the words of Sacred Scripture as he sees fit.
    For example, in the morning homily at Santa Marta on September 4, 2014, at a certain point the pope attributed to Saint Paul these “scandalous” words: “I boast only of my sins.” And he concluded by inviting the faithful present to “boast” of their own sins, in that they have been forgiven from the cross by Jesus.
    But in none of Paul’s letters can such an expression be found. The apostle instead says of himself: “If it is necessary to boast, I will boast of my weaknesses” (2 Corinthians 11:30), after having listed all the hardships of his life - the imprisonments, the floggings, the shipwrecks.
    Or: “About myself I will not boast, except of my weaknesses” (2 Corinthians 12:5). Or again: “He said to me: ‘My grace is enough for you; strength is in fact made fully manifest in weakness.’ I will therefore gladly boast of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me” (2 Corinthians 12:9), with more references to the outrages, persecutions, anguish he has suffered.
    *
    Coming back to the final judgment, Pope Benedict XVI also acknowledged that "in the modern era, the idea of the Last Judgement has faded into the background.”
    But in the encyclical “Spe Salvi,” which he wrote entirely on his own, he forcefully reaffirmed that the last judgment is “the decisive image of hope.” It is an image that “evokes responsibility,” because “grace does not cancel out justice,” but on the contrary “the question of justice constitutes the essential argument, or in any case the strongest argument, in favour of faith in eternal life,” because “with the impossibility that the injustice of history should be the final word does the necessity for Christ's return and for new life become fully convincing.”
    And again:
    “Grace does not make wrong into right. It is not a sponge which wipes everything away, so that whatever someone has done on earth ends up being of equal value. Dostoevsky was right to protest against this kind of Heaven and this kind of grace in his novel ‘The Brothers Karamazov.’ Evildoers, in the end, do not sit at table at the eternal banquet beside their victims without distinction, as though nothing had happened.”
    (English translation by Matthew Sherry, Ballwin, Missouri, U.S.A.)

    This article was originally published on the Sandro Magister blog in L'Ezpresso Magazine and is republished with permission. Magister is an  Italian journalist who specializes in religious news, in particular on the Catholic Church and the Vatican.  His reports, from a fiathful Catholic perspective, have been considered exceptionally reliable and are widely read. See his bio here.

    Pope Francis has no power to abolish what already exists. 

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #4 on: October 28, 2017, 11:35:50 PM »
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  • Pope Francis has no power to abolish what already exists.
    Not even if he were pope, but "If you hum a few bars..."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 02:54:17 AM »
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  • Not even if he were pope, but "If you hum a few bars..."
    Chocolate bars, ice cream bars ...
    Protein bars ... everyone wants bars
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #6 on: October 29, 2017, 03:07:49 AM »
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  • Pope Francis has no power to abolish what already exists.
    That is because Francis is not really a pope after all.
    See the new book, The Papacy in the Secret of Fatima by Father Paul Kramer
    .
    "I have demonstrated that the Church teaches de fide, that the manifest sin of formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the body of the Church; and as a consequence, any officeholder (including the Pope) in the Church would would publicly defect from the faith into heresy, would thereby lose office, as is set forth in Canon 194 of the Code of Canon Law, and is rooted in the ruling of Session 37 of the Council of Constance." -- Father Paul Kramer
    .
    "Another heresy I deal with in the book is the opinion that a heretic pope must first be judged by the Church before losing office, since the pope, while he is in office, cannot be judged by anyone. The idea that a pope could be juridically judged by his subjects is a discarded and abandoned theory of the Counter-Reformation period, that opposes later magisterial pronouncements of the popes, and therefore had to be abandoned. [i.e. Vatican I nullified the theory of the Counter-Reformation] That a true and valid pope can be judged by no one is de fide." -- Father Paul Kramer

    -- Quotes above are taken from a recent letter by Father Paul Kramer published by The Servants of Jesus and Mary, and dated October 2017 (Issue 1).
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #7 on: October 29, 2017, 03:58:18 AM »
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  • Pope Benedict XVI nailed it here:

    Quote
    Coming back to the final judgment, Pope Benedict XVI also acknowledged that "in the modern era, the idea of the Last Judgement has faded into the background.”
    .
    But in the encyclical “Spe Salvi,” which he wrote entirely on his own, he forcefully reaffirmed that the last judgment is “the decisive image of hope.” It is an image that “evokes responsibility,” because “grace does not cancel out justice,” but on the contrary “the question of justice constitutes the essential argument, or in any case the strongest argument, in favour of faith in eternal life,” because “with the impossibility that the injustice of history should be the final word does the necessity for Christ's return and for new life become fully convincing.”
    .
    And again:
    “Grace does not make wrong into right. It is not a sponge which wipes everything away, so that whatever someone has done on earth ends up being of equal value. Dostoevsky was right to protest against this kind of Heaven and this kind of grace in his novel ‘The Brothers Karamazov.’ Evildoers, in the end, do not sit at table at the eternal banquet beside their victims without distinction, as though nothing had happened.”

    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #8 on: October 29, 2017, 01:48:43 PM »
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  • Ma'am,

    It seems to me that you are not consistent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that we have been without a Pope since Pius XI/XII? Then you call Benedict XVI a Pope? What's going on here?
    Respectful Catholic habit. Putting "Pope" in front of someone's name is now merely a respectful habit, nothing more.
    .
    Once a papist, always a papist.
    .
    I was born into a respectful Catholic family. Now I am the only Catholic left as all my brothers and my sister have fallen for Protestantism.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 04:23:19 PM »
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  • Sounds like this could be the old heresy of Origen.  Or who knows?  Scalfari has been known to sensationalize things to make a name for himself.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: No hell, purgatory, or heaven Pope
    « Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 06:06:00 PM »
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  • The Man of Sin
    And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.
    Stand Firm
    But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit, and faith of the truth: Whereunto also he hath called you by our gospel, unto the purchasing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. (2 Thes 2:10-14 )
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


     

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