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Author Topic: Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood  (Read 2916 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
« on: January 14, 2016, 12:37:20 AM »
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  • With the focus being the community and banquet, today, full participation means accepting the "call" to a "leadership role" at the feast.  This means being a "liturgical minister" -- a reader, cantor, music minister, liturgy designer, eucharistic minister, cup minister -- and, I guess, dance ministers now.  There are also the lesser "ministries" of ushers, greeters, etc.

    I got this bulletin last Sunday from a nearby church.  On the front cover it has a section titled "Ministries."  It lists 30 varieties, but there are many more.  Anything a lay person does for the parish is a "ministry."  Many good people have been led to believe they must have a "ministry" in order to serve the Church.  They truly believe they are helping remedy a priest shortage or taking some of the load off the priest.

    Unfortunately, no matter how altruistic their motive, they are helping the modernist feminist agenda of using a plethora of lay ministries to destroy the ordained priesthood, and the very identity of the Church herself.  I'll get to that in a few minutes. But first lets consider another major source of outrages against the Holy Eucharist -- Communion in the hand...

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    Offline poche

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 02:43:44 AM »
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  • Nothing can truly destroy the ordained priesthood.


    Offline OHCA

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 05:39:48 AM »
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  • Something about these "ministries" sounds protestant to me.  I know many heretical sects have youth "ministers."  Also, "minister" is a term for heretic preachers/pastors.

    Offline OHCA

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 05:51:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Nothing can truly destroy the ordained priesthood.


    I don't believe the priesthood will ever be completely eradicated if that's what you mean by "truly destroyed."  But conciliardom has certainly attacked it.  All of these "ministries" muddle the very concept of the priesthood.  One thing it does is promotes the heretical idea that all "believers" are priests--one of Luther's heresies.  Another way conciliardom is getting rid of the priesthood is with the invalid concecrations and ordinations.  Conciliardom mainly has a bunch of prietenders these days thanks to the bastardized "concecrations" and "ordinations."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 06:44:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    ...But conciliardom has certainly attacked it.  All of these "ministries" muddle the very concept of the priesthood.  One thing it does is promotes the heretical idea that all "believers" are priests--one of Luther's heresies...

    JPII was an avid promoter of this concept, as shown in his General Audience of Wednesday 15 December, 1993, "The laity share in the priesthood of Christ, Catechesis of John Paul II on the Church":

    http://totus2us.com/vocation/jpii-catechesis-on-the-church/the-laity-share-in-the-priesthood-of-christ/
    Quote
    2. We note that the Council does not merely describe the laity as sharing in the "priestly, prophetic and kingly functions of Christ" (LG 31), but specifies that Christ himself continues to exercise his priesthood in their lives. Hence their participation in the common priesthood of the Church occurs through the commission and action of Christ, the one eternal high priest.

    Moreover, this priestly action of Christ in the laity takes place through the Holy Spirit. Christ "vivifies them with his Spirit." This is what Jesus had promised when he stated the principle that the Spirit gives life (cf. Jn 6:63). He who was sent on Pentecost to form the Church has the perennial task of developing Christ's priesthood and priestly activity in the Church, including the laity, who are fully-fledged members of the corpus Christi by virtue of Baptism. With Baptism, Christ's presence and priestly activity is initiated in every member of his body, in whom the Holy Spirit instills grace and on whom he impresses the character. This enables the believer to have a vital share in the worship given by Christ to the Father in the Church. In Confirmation he confers the ability to be committed adults in the faith, actively involved in the Church's mission of giving witness to and spreading the Gospel [1] .

    3. By virtue of this sharing in his priesthood, Christ gives all his members, laity included (cf. LG 34), the capacity of offering in their lives that worship which he himself called "worshipping the Father in Spirit and truth" (Jn 4:23). By carrying out this worship the faithful, enlivened by the Holy Spirit, share in the incarnate Word's sacrifice and in his mission as high priest and universal Redeemer.

    According to the Council, in this transcendent priestly reality of Christ's mystery the laity are called to offer their whole lives as a spiritual sacrifice, thus cooperating with the entire Church in the Redeemer's continual consecration of the world. This is the laity's great mission: "For all their works, prayers and apostolic endeavors, their ordinary married and family life, their daily occupations, their physical and mental relaxation, if carried out in the Spirit, and even the hardships of life, if patiently borne--all these become 'spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.' Together with the offering of the Lord's body, they are most fittingly offered in the celebration of the Eucharist. Thus, as those everywhere who adore in holy activity, the laity consecrate the world itself to God" (cf. LG 34; CCC 901).

    [1] Â  cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theol., q. 63, a 3; q. 72, aa. 5-6

    I remember hearing about that same time, 1993, from Catholics who were active in parish meetings, that it is by virtue of our Baptism that we share in the priesthood of the laity.  

    The word "believer" and the Lutheran principle of "salvation by faith alone" are not specifically pushed in these Newchurch programs, rather they like to lean on Baptism, etc.

    Try putting "priesthood of the laity" in a search engine and see all the hits you come up with.

    This year, Francis is pushing the envelope with his "Holy Door" program whereby everyone (baptized or not!?) becomes a participant in God's mercy and welcome in the operation of the Church, just by walking through the magical open doorway (instead of being baptized?).  Note:  no mention of "believer" or "faith" in this Holy Door situation.

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 06:51:52 AM »
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  • Sorry, I think that's supposed to be "justification by faith alone," not "salvation by faith alone."  The ink dried.

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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 03:20:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat

    With the focus being the community and banquet, today, full participation means accepting the "call" to a "leadership role" at the feast.  This means being a "liturgical minister" -- a reader, cantor, music minister, liturgy designer, eucharistic minister, cup minister -- and, I guess, dance ministers now.  There are also the lesser "ministries" of ushers, greeters, etc.

    I got this bulletin last Sunday from a nearby church.  On the front cover it has a section titled "Ministries."  It lists 30 varieties, but there are many more.  Anything a lay person does for the parish is a "ministry."  Many good people have been led to believe they must have a "ministry" in order to serve the Church.  They truly believe they are helping remedy a priest shortage or taking some of the load off the priest.

    Unfortunately, no matter how altruistic their motive, they are helping the modernist feminist agenda of using a plethora of lay ministries to destroy the ordained priesthood, and the very identity of the Church herself.  I'll get to that in a few minutes. But first lets consider another major source of outrages against the Holy Eucharist -- Communion in the hand...



    These are only signs of the increasing protestantization of Vatican II Catholicism.

    It started with the Novus Ordo Missae which was taken almost word for word from the Lutheran Hymnal of 1904, which I studied intensely during a period of two weeks back in 1995. After that study, I never attended a NO mass again.

    Now there is a Catholic-Lutheran Common Prayer to be implemented in 2017 by the Vatican.
    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/01/important-lutheran-world-federation.html

    Go to almost any Protestant, Lutheran, or Anglican parish, and you will see an almost identical list of lay ministries. People are encouraged to get involved and share their time, talent, and treasures.

    And yes, having Eucharistic ministers is one way to encourage women to entertain the notion of serving in the priesthood, and even getting ordained invalidly and illicitly by excommunicated "women priests."

    Here in California, women who serve as Eucharistic ministers are leading Communion Services in priestless parishes, where they lead the "community" in prayers, Bible readings, the Lord's Prayer, and then distribute reserved hosts, which are delivered from other parishes that have priests. More upsetting is the fact that people have seen Catholic Deacons sitting on the side while a woman stands vested at the altar giving the readings, sharing a sermon, and then distributing communion. Why have a deacon at all if he is not going to serve?
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Newchurch -ministries, innovations- attack the priesthood
    « Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 03:48:37 PM »
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  • Quote

    Here in California, women who serve as Eucharistic ministers are leading Communion Services in priestless parishes, where they lead the "community" in prayers, Bible readings, the Lord's Prayer, and then distribute reserved hosts, which are delivered from other parishes that have priests. More upsetting is the fact that people have seen Catholic Deacons sitting on the side while a woman stands vested at the altar giving the readings, sharing a sermon, and then distributing communion. Why have a deacon at all if he is not going to serve?


    Why have a deacon at all if he's not going to serve?  Good question.

    The purpose of the deacon sitting there is to bestow the appearance of legitimacy on the woman's presence and actions in the sanctuary.  

    Sometime about 1995 it hit me like a train wreck when I went into a local Catholic parish church (Granada Hills, CA), one where I had sent my children to school previously but I had by then removed them because of corruption in the religion classes.  I went into the church when daily Mass was scheduled, and instead of a priest at the altar, there was a woman, dressed in vestments, and raising a chalice while jabbering some strange words.  It was a "Communion Service."  I noticed a few others in the pews like me, who were looking askance at this whole affair.  

    As for me, it was the last straw.  I got up and voted with my feet, and I haven't been back there since.

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    Offline Maria Regina

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    « Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 04:04:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote

    Here in California, women who serve as Eucharistic ministers are leading Communion Services in priestless parishes, where they lead the "community" in prayers, Bible readings, the Lord's Prayer, and then distribute reserved hosts, which are delivered from other parishes that have priests. More upsetting is the fact that people have seen Catholic Deacons sitting on the side while a woman stands vested at the altar giving the readings, sharing a sermon, and then distributing communion. Why have a deacon at all if he is not going to serve?


    Why have a deacon at all if he's not going to serve?  Good question.

    The purpose of the deacon sitting there is to bestow the appearance of legitimacy on the woman's presence and actions in the sanctuary.  

    Sometime about 1995 it hit me like a train wreck when I went into a local Catholic parish church (Granada Hills, CA), one where I had sent my children to school previously but I had by then removed them because of corruption in the religion classes.  I went into the church when daily Mass was scheduled, and instead of a priest at the altar, there was a woman, dressed in vestments, and raising a chalice while jabbering some strange words.  It was a "Communion Service."  I noticed a few others in the pews like me, who were looking askance at this whole affair.  

    As for me, it was the last straw.  I got up and voted with my feet, and I haven't been back there since.

    .


    Was that the same parish in Granada Hills where a priest pulled a red Flyer wagon with a teddy bear in it up the aisle at the beginning of Mass?

    When people started laughing (I was grimacing in pain), the priest turned and asked, "Why are you laughing? What is funnier .... ?  I cannot remember what else he said, and I was in a state of shock.

    Yes, I walked out too.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 04:13:29 PM »
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  • Continuing where I left off...

    Communion in the Hand              


    Communion in the hand contradicts the Church teaching enunciated by St. Thomas Aquinas, viz., "Out of reverence towards this Sacrament, nothing touches it but what is consecrated."  Only the hands of a priest are consecrated.  Communion in the hand was condemned in the 7th century to halt widespread abuses, and as a safeguard against sacrilege.  However, Protestants adopted this practice "to manifest their belief that there is no such thing as Transubstantiation and Holy Orders, and the bread is just ordinary bread and the minister an ordinary man with no God-given power to consecrate."

    Communion in the hand has given rise to various sacrileges and heresies.  First it's the justification for lay eucharistic ministers, including nuns.  If a lay person could receive Communion in his unconsecrated hands, then he could distribute It to others.  This immediately decreased reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament and other sacrileges followed:  Consecrated Hosts left on pews, sometimes in pieces;  carried in pockets;  passed around the classroom;  dropped on streets;  sold on e-Bay;  and easily procured for the ultimate profanation in Black Masses.  

    The second result of Communion in the hand is that once lay eucharistic ministers became the norm, the floodgates were opened to a torrent of other liturgical "ministries" that have contributed to the downgrading of the priesthood and to other heresies. These "ministries" are the back door to women's ordination.  The all-male priesthood is an affront the feminist concept of "equality," a concept derived from Communism and Masonry, and an error of Russia, about which Our Lady of Fatima warned.  The feminist strategy is to involve females in other liturgical roles to prepare a climate of acceptance for priestesses, as congregations get used to seeing women around the altar.

    (next up, the Feminist Agenda...)

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 04:22:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Maria Regina

    Was that the same parish in Granada Hills where a priest pulled a red Flyer wagon with a teddy bear in it up the aisle at the beginning of Mass?

    When people started laughing (I was grimacing in pain), the priest turned and asked, "Why are you laughing? What is funnier .... ?  I cannot remember what else he said, and I was in a state of shock.

    Yes, I walked out too.


    I'm sorry, I don't know about the teddy bear incident.  It sounds vaguely familiar but there have been so many scandals it's hard to keep up with them all.  But it's the kind of thing I might have expected to see at St. John Eudes, in Chatsworth, or at St. Euphrasia in Granada Hills.  Am I close?

    The parish where I was when the woman in vestments took over the sanctuary was St. John Baptist de la Salle on Chatsworth and Hayvenhurst, G.H.

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    Offline Disputaciones

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    « Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 05:33:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    One thing it does is promotes the heretical idea that all "believers" are priests--one of Luther's heresies.


    I have a Novus Ordo aunt who takes the Novus Ordo cookie to the sick every single week, and possibly even to my grandfather.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    « Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 05:35:56 PM »
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  • Isn't the "priesthood of the faithful" something true and orthodox though? It appears in the Bible.

    I don't mean like the Novus Ordo does it but the concept itself.  

    Offline Disputaciones

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    « Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 06:10:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Maria Regina
    It started with the Novus Ordo Missae which was taken almost word for word from the Lutheran Hymnal of 1904, which I studied intensely during a period of two weeks back in 1995. After that study, I never attended a NO mass again.


    Do you have that hymnal in PDF?

    Offline Maria Regina

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    « Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 08:32:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    Quote from: Maria Regina
    It started with the Novus Ordo Missae which was taken almost word for word from the Lutheran Hymnal of 1904, which I studied intensely during a period of two weeks back in 1995. After that study, I never attended a NO mass again.


    Do you have that hymnal in PDF?


    Oh, I wish. If you find a copy, please let me know.

    There was one copy at the Claretian Center Library in Los Angeles. I borrowed it for two weeks, and when I returned it, I showed to our priest who was a priest living at the center. When he saw the Creed, which is almost identical to the ICEL Creed, and then checked a few other pages and saw how it was almost word for word the same as the ICEL liturgy (guess they copied it, updated the English, and then copyrighted it), then Father turned white in the face, took the book, and tossed it into the fireplace. It is toast now.

    Father has refused to say the NO ever since.
    Lord have mercy.