Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD  (Read 10159 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2021, 05:41:57 PM »
Here is the quote from St. Thomas that de Lugo referenced:
Quote
Quote
Ladislaus asked (RomanTheo) Do you believe in BoD for Catechumens only?  If so, then I'm not interested in debating that


Last Tradhican asked now 5 times:

Quote
Here is my 4th try:What flavor of BOD are you promoting here? Define your BOD in the fewest words possible (it) . Be the first BODer to ever do it on CI or anywhere else I've been to in 25+ years.



I do not see that RomanTheo ever answered the simple question above. Did I miss something?

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2021, 06:15:19 PM »

Quote
Because... reasons?
Because the Old Testament laws for salvation were different from the New.  You didn’t know this?  If not, then you shouldn’t be debating this topic, having a limited understanding of basic Old Testament knowledge.  
.
If you did know, why are you calling it ridiculous?  God's “reasons” are not to be questioned.  


Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2021, 06:15:59 PM »


So theoretically children today could meet the same hypothetical criteria, but still go to Limbo instead of heaven just 'cause they were born later?  Because... reasons?
Because they are not baptized, they are not in the Church, and if they reach the age of reason they go to hell. Limbo is actually God's mercy. You see limbo as a punishment because you assume that people who are not Catholics can save themselves by being nice.


Quote
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jҽωs or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire ..and that nobody can be saved, … even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra)


They can't save themselves even if they shed their blood for Christ, how much clearer can dogma make it?  

Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2021, 06:25:57 PM »
Because the Old Testament laws for salvation were different from the New.  You didn’t know this?  If not, then you shouldn’t be debating this topic, having a limited understanding of basic Old Testament knowledge.  
.
If you did know, why are you calling it ridiculous?  God's “reasons” are not to be questioned.  
This is nominalism IMO.

Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2021, 06:28:51 PM »
Because they are not baptized, they are not in the Church, and if they reach the age of reason they go to hell. Limbo is actually God's mercy. You see limbo as a punishment because you assume that people who are not Catholics can save themselves by being nice.



They can't save themselves even if they shed their blood for Christ, how much clearer can dogma make it?  
Perhaps I should've looked more carefully to determine *what* infants we were talking about.  The Holy Innocents were killed for the faith, because herod wanted to kill Christ.  And they were in Israel, which was the "church" of the Old Testament.  It sure seems to me that hypothetically speaking, an unbaptized child of a Catholic parent who was martyred (say ISIS killed the whole family for being Catholics) would be equivalent to something like that, and that seems like a pretty reasonable application of Baptism of *Blood*.  Now if you wanna say that the child of some random infant who dies (with their death having nothing to do with the faith, not being for the faith even in an indirect sense) it seems less likely BOB would apply, and more likely they'd end up in Limbo.  But to say that children who die under equivalent circuмstances to the Holy Innocents end up in Limbo because of some arbitrary legal change from God seems more like Protestant style nominalism where God arbitrarily decides whether to impute guilt or not than it does the logic of Catholicism/