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Offline verilyCatholic

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Re: New Fr. Wathen biography?!
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 12:47:28 PM »
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  • Hi, I am hoping (with faint hope) that Fr. Wathen can resurrect my belief that the Conciliar popes are valid popes. I have acquired a copy of Who Shall Ascend and am studying it. Father Wathen is correct about most things, and I am hoping that his rejection of sedevacantism can convince me that Francis is a true pope. It is looking very much like the sedevacantist movement is stalling badly, and that within a short time, there will be no sedevacantist left except me.
    My belief is that Archbishop Lefebvre refused to accept sedevacantism because of his desire for human respect, and that Fr. Wathen rejected sedevacantism because he was deeply invested in the institutional Church and that he felt an overwhelming terror when he considered the possibility that the Church could be without a pope, especially for 30 some years with no hope of a true pope developing. He had hope, in 1992, that the Conciliar Church could right itself. That was then, it now seems clear that the Conciliarists will not return to the pre-Conciliar Catholic religion. If Fr. can somehow convince me that by some mysterious process the so-called "Novus Ordo" Church is the Catholic Church, I will be very happy. As a forlorn sedevacantist, I am very dissatisfied. I hope I am not the ONLY real Catholic in the world. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: New Fr. Wathen biography?!
    « Reply #16 on: May 14, 2018, 01:24:49 PM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre didn't accept sedeism because he was prudent, not because he cared so much about human respect.

    Sedevacantism is essentially an American belief system; based, IMO, on religious freedom. Archbishop Lefebvre was not American. Not by a longshot.


    Offline verilyCatholic

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    Re: New Fr. Wathen biography?!
    « Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 12:32:27 PM »
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  • Meg: Archbishop Lefebvre was not American, though he was, I understand, very fond of Americans in general. His biography, the one by Bishop de Mallerais, reveals that the Archbishop was looking seriously at sedevacantism. He said, "It is possible that we might have to say that the pope is not the pope." He didn't go that way, but it is not ridiculous :laugh1:, as all the pagan seculars (I assume and hope you do not fall into that dreadful category) crow. You infer that the Europeans do not favor sedevacantism. That may be, but the Conciliar Revolution was like a great tidal wave, sweeping all opposition (including the good Archbishop) before it. Very, very few Catholics have had the nerve to say, "NO", to Vatican II. It took me almost 30 years to begin questioning the validity of the Council. Father Malachi Martin helped stir me into awareness. I know that he was pretty sketchy and that you had to take what he said or wrote with a grain of salt, but I loved him and he was brave and knowledgeable man.
    Now, I place Father Wathen, God rest his soul, in the same vein as Archbishop Lefebvre. Both were good pre-Vatican II Catholics who loved the Faith. Both refused to embrace sedevacantism. Their error was, I believe and hope, forgiven by Jesus when they went before the Throne. RCG:farmer:.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: New Fr. Wathen biography?!
    « Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 01:07:49 PM »
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  • My belief is that Archbishop Lefebvre refused to accept sedevacantism because of his desire for human respect, and that Fr. Wathen rejected sedevacantism because he was deeply invested in the institutional Church and that he felt an overwhelming terror when he considered the possibility that the Church could be without a pope, especially for 30 some years with no hope of a true pope developing.
    This is just silly. The fact is, Fr. Wathen actually spoke very little about sedeism because he felt most sane individuals would see it for what it was - schismatic - he felt that way because that is what the Church has always taught. He also encouraged people to avoid even discussing it because the unknowing and those weaker in the faith are too easily sucked into it.

    Most of Fr.'s writings and sermons are about everything Catholic except sedeism. If you read Who Shall Ascend, you will find he mentions sedeism only a few times and devotes just one chapter to it - he explains the situation so clearly in such a short space that really, there was  no need to explain it further at the time.

    As for +ABL, whatever he is quoted to have said had absolutely nothing to do with human respect weakness, remember, he dealt face to face with the popes, so if anyone would have had the opportunity to decide or know if sedeism is true or in some way acceptable, it was +ABL, and don't forget that he was the only General on the front lines dealing with slanderous superiors and press till he died. If anyone did not really care about what others thought, it was +ABL.


    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

     

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