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Author Topic: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix  (Read 34984 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2025, 07:20:27 AM »
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  • I just don't buy this idea that Mary stands between me and Christ, that His grace comes through her to me, like she is an aqueduct. This seems to be the traditional idea of "mediatrix" but it just seems excessive. I agree with this docuмent when it says that God is the one who bestows graces through Christ. Directly to us, not through any intermediaries like Mary. She prays for us, but she doesn't stand between God and us, right? This traditional idea of mediatrix seems highly excessive. And I'm comfortable disagreeing with it because it's just theological opinion
    Christ passes the graces through His mother inorder to increase her glory. The Blessed Virgin has received all graces possible for a creative to receive. Frankly it makes sense to me. She literally had God inside her, this is very special.

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #16 on: November 07, 2025, 08:43:41 AM »
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  • I just don't buy this idea that Mary stands between me and Christ, that His grace comes through her to me, like she is an aqueduct. This seems to be the traditional idea of "mediatrix" but it just seems excessive. I agree with this docuмent when it says that God is the one who bestows graces through Christ. Directly to us, not through any intermediaries like Mary. She prays for us, but she doesn't stand between God and us, right? This traditional idea of mediatrix seems highly excessive. And I'm comfortable disagreeing with it because it's just theological opinion

    All of the Saints especially St. Bernard and St. Louis De Montfort, and St. Bridget go into all kinds of detail on these matters.
    Besides the Church doing everything short of making infallible definitions, let's not forget the the Blessed Virgin Herself is not shy about telling the faithful how She is to be venerated.
    She told St. Bernadette, "I am the Immaculate Conception."
    She told the Lucia to make the 5 first Saturdays for the conversion of Russia and of sinners.
    The intention for the 4th, is to make up for those who sow hatred for the Blessed Mother in peoples hearts.
    Most specifically, She showed St. Catherine Laboure how to make the Miraculous Metal, which shows Her acting as Mediatrix with the Grace of God flowing from her hands. She said some graces were dependent on the petitions directed to Her in order to be given.

    Mary is the exterminatrix of all heresies. The clergy of little faith, and bad will, must oppose Her in order to push their anti-Catholic and evil agenda.



    O Mary,
    Queen of Heaven,
    Our Co-Redemtrix and Mediatrix,
    Pray for us,


    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #17 on: November 07, 2025, 11:33:39 AM »
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  • Fr Gregory Hesse speaks about this. The title of co-Redemptrix is not a dogma , but a traditional teaching.  He was hoping that the Church would one day define exactly what is meant by co-Redemptrix, because Our Lord is the Redeemer. The following concerns the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception but certainly sheds light on the role of Our Lady. Just think: if there would have been no Immaculate Conception , then there wouldn't be THE "merciful" Redeemer. 

    https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9ineff.htm

    Pius IX: 
    "...These ecclesiastical writers in quoting the words by which at the beginning of the world God announced his merciful remedies prepared for the regeneration of mankind — words by which He crushed the audacity of the deceitful serpent and wondrously raised up the hope of our race, saying, “I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed”[13] — taught that by this divine prophecy the merciful 
    Redeemer of mankind, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was clearly foretold: That his most Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was prophetically indicated; and, at the same time, the very enmity of both against the evil one was significantly expressed. Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with Him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with Him and through Him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.[14]

    This sublime and singular privilege of the Blessed Virgin, together with her most excellent innocence, purity, holiness and freedom from every stain of sin, as well as the unspeakable abundance and greatness of all heavenly graces, virtues and privileges — these the Fathers beheld in that ark of Noah, which was built by divine command and escaped entirely safe and sound from the common shipwreck of the whole world;[15] 




    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Cera

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    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #19 on: November 07, 2025, 10:13:09 PM »
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  • I just posted the Statutes of SAJM (Library Board) and +Faure in Section VIII, paragraph 1,  says: "...Virgin Mary CoRedemptrix and Mediatrix."

    +   +   +
    Prayers  for November 2, Third MASS
    V.  Audivi vocem de coelo dicentem mihi.
    R.  Beati mortui qui in Domino moriuntur.


    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #20 on: November 08, 2025, 06:42:26 PM »
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  • The solemn definition of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces by the upcoming Second Vatican Council was one of the particular requests of Archbishop Lefebvre in response to Rome's survey of bishops before the Council:

    https://fsspx.org/en/archbishop-lefebvre-preparing-council-30363

    Archbishop Lefebvre 
    Preparing the Council (1959-1962)

    Written by Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais and originally published in the French magazine, Fideliter. The English translation was taken from the May 2002 issue of The Angelus.

    On June 5, 1960, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, then Archbishop of Dakar and President of the Episcopal Commission for French-speaking West Africa, was appointed by Pope John XXIII to the Central Preparatory Commission for the Council. His Excellency took part in all the sessions of that commission until June 1962, during which time he was able to assess the seriousness of such preparation. However, he became quickly aware of the formidable struggle of influence between the “Romans” (e.g., those wanting to preserve Tradition) and the Liberals. That struggle intensified and finally broke out in the open at the very beginning of the Council.

    Archbishop Lefebvre was not yet aware of the intrigues and behind-the-scene dealings that would rig the Council when he received a letter from Cardinal Tardini dated June 18, 1959. That letter was an inquiry asking bishops around the world questions and suggestions regarding the various topics which should be addressed during the coming Council. On May 17, 1959, Pope John XXIII had announced the establishment of such preparatory commission.

    Some episcopal responses deserve to be known. For example, Bishop Carli, from a small diocese in Italy, wished to have the Council pronounce a firm condemnation of the theory on evolution, as well as of the moral relativism already rampant. That bishop’s concerns were added to those of a Brazilian prelate, Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer, who asked that the coming council “denounce with the strongest words the conspiracy against the City of God.” Bishop de Castro Mayer thought and wished that the formation of clerics should result with priests more aware and more combative against what he called “the Anti-Christian Conspiracy.”

    Cardinal Tardini’s Survey
    One of Bishop de Castro Mayer’s compatriots and confreres, Bishop Geraldo de Proenca Sigaud, was no less determined and pugnacious in denouncing “the implacable enemy of both the Church and Catholic society...”, i.e., the Revolution, insisting on an “active counter-revolutionary stance,” especially against Communism.

    The Archbishop of Dakar (Senegal), who was about to form a holy alliance with these prelates was at first preoccupied by the ever-increasing dominance of bishops’ conferences, which he saw as an obstacle to the true authority of diocesan prelates. In his response to Cardinal Tardini, His Excellency did ask for some clarifications pertaining to the laity’s apostolate. He also expressed his concern for sound doctrine by proposing remedies to the deviations that had begun to spread in the seminaries, in particular that doctrine be taught following the Summa of St. Thomas and with the help of a manual on the Church’s social doctrine. Two aspects of Church doctrine were of particular concern to the Archbishop:
    • The dogma “outside the Church, no salvation,” which he insisted needed to be reinforced especially against errors undermining the missionary role of the Church.
    • He also asked for a clear affirmation of the Marian truth that the most holy Virgin Mary, Mother of God is Mediatrix of all graces. Such affirmation, said Archbishop Lefebvre, would undoubtedly confirm the spiritual motherhood of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
    These proposals by the Archbishop and the three other bishops mentioned earlier were very touchy and more conspicuous by their demand on doctrinal affirmation than all other suggestions and proposals made by the rest of the world’s Catholic bishops.



    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #21 on: November 08, 2025, 08:14:52 PM »
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  • Very special reference, thank you PV  for discovering. +Lefebvre was already in a combat:  "Romans" vs. the "Liberals". We can safely conclude that Holy Mother Church has fought for the Truth for 1992 years. 

    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: New-Church Nixes Titles of Our Lady - Co-redemptrix & Mediatrix
    « Reply #22 on: November 08, 2025, 08:37:14 PM »
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  • The solemn definition of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces by the upcoming Second Vatican Council was one of the particular requests of Archbishop Lefebvre in response to Rome's survey of bishops before the Council:
    There was supposed to a standalone Marian docuмent at Vatican II, but then it was diluted in Lumen Gentium
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