CathInfo.com

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: PaulFC

Since then, the solemn magisterium has only been called to form a General Council 20 times in 2000 years, and each time it was simply to clarify a teaching of the ordinary magisterium that was being attacked at the time. Catholics historically have always learned their faith through the ordinary magisterium, which is guaranteed infallible. The infallible solemn magisterium steps in only in rare cases, like a referee would, to clarify and straighten out problems. Once the referee has done his job, the ordinary magisterium resumes day-to-day infallible teaching. Hopefully that helps clarify how the ordinary and the solemn magisterium work together to form one, continuous infallible teaching of the Church.

No, the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia is very explicit when it teaches that the Ordinary Magisterium (Magisterium Ordinarium), is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically ineffective as an organ of Infallibility:

Quote from: 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia

As regards matter, only doctrines of faith and morals, and facts so intimately connected with these as to require infallible determination, fall under the scope of infallible ecclesiastical teaching. These doctrines or facts need not necessarily be revealed; it is enough if the revealed deposit cannot be adequately and effectively guarded and explained, unless they are infallibly determined.

As to the organ of authority by which such doctrines or facts are determined, three possible organs exist. One of these, the Magisterium Ordinarium, is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically ineffective as an organ. The other two, however, are adequately efficient organs, and when they definitively decide any question of faith or morals that may arise, no believer who pays due attention to Christ's promises can consistently refuse to assent with absolute and irrevocable certainty to their teaching.

But before being bound to give such an assent, the believer has a right to be certain that the teaching in question is definitive (since only definitive teaching is infallible); and the means by which the definitive intention, whether of a council or of the pope, may be recognized have been stated above. It need only be added here that not everything in a conciliar or papal pronouncement, in which some doctrine is defined, is to be treated as definitive and infallible. For example, in the lengthy Bull of Pius IX defining the Immaculate Conception the strictly definitive and infallible portion is comprised in a sentence or two; and the same is true in many cases in regard to conciliar decisions. The merely argumentative and justificatory statements embodied in definitive judgments, however true and authoritative they may be, are not covered by the guarantee of infallibility which attaches to the strictly definitive sentences — unless, indeed, their infallibility has been previously or subsequently established by an independent decision.

You are changing the words of this quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia. It doesn't say, "organ of infallibility", it just says "organ". Furthermore, you are misinterpreting the sentence because the same article you are referring to confirms the ordinary magisterium is an organ of infallibility. Here's the complete quote from the article:

Mutual Relations of the Organs of Infallibility

A few brief remarks under this head will serve to make the Catholic conception of ecclesiastical infallibility still clearer. Three organs have been mentioned:

1) the bishops dispersed throughout the world in union with the Holy See;
2) ecuмenical councils under the headship of the pope; and
3) the pope himself separately.

Through the first of these is exercised what theologians describe as the ordinarium magisterium, i. e. the common or everyday teaching authority of the Church; through the second and third the magisterium solemne, or undeniably definitive authority...

Wait a minute...why leave the rest of the paragraph uncited?. It continues:

Through the first of these is exercised what theologians describe as the ordinarium magisterium, i.e. the common or everyday teaching authority of the Church; through the second and third the magisterium solemne, or undeniably definitive authority. Practically speaking, at the present day, and for many centuries in the past, only the decisions of ecuмenical councils and the ex cathedra teaching of the pope have been treated as strictly definitive in the canonical sense, and the function of the magisterium ordinarium has been concerned with the effective promulgation and maintenance of what has been formally defined by the magisterium solemne or may be legitimately deduced from its definitions.

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: PaulFC

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: PaulFC

Since then, the solemn magisterium has only been called to form a General Council 20 times in 2000 years, and each time it was simply to clarify a teaching of the ordinary magisterium that was being attacked at the time. Catholics historically have always learned their faith through the ordinary magisterium, which is guaranteed infallible. The infallible solemn magisterium steps in only in rare cases, like a referee would, to clarify and straighten out problems. Once the referee has done his job, the ordinary magisterium resumes day-to-day infallible teaching. Hopefully that helps clarify how the ordinary and the solemn magisterium work together to form one, continuous infallible teaching of the Church.

No, the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia is very explicit when it teaches that the Ordinary Magisterium (Magisterium Ordinarium), is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically ineffective as an organ of Infallibility:

Quote from: 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia

As regards matter, only doctrines of faith and morals, and facts so intimately connected with these as to require infallible determination, fall under the scope of infallible ecclesiastical teaching. These doctrines or facts need not necessarily be revealed; it is enough if the revealed deposit cannot be adequately and effectively guarded and explained, unless they are infallibly determined.

As to the organ of authority by which such doctrines or facts are determined, three possible organs exist. One of these, the Magisterium Ordinarium, is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically ineffective as an organ. The other two, however, are adequately efficient organs, and when they definitively decide any question of faith or morals that may arise, no believer who pays due attention to Christ's promises can consistently refuse to assent with absolute and irrevocable certainty to their teaching.

But before being bound to give such an assent, the believer has a right to be certain that the teaching in question is definitive (since only definitive teaching is infallible); and the means by which the definitive intention, whether of a council or of the pope, may be recognized have been stated above. It need only be added here that not everything in a conciliar or papal pronouncement, in which some doctrine is defined, is to be treated as definitive and infallible. For example, in the lengthy Bull of Pius IX defining the Immaculate Conception the strictly definitive and infallible portion is comprised in a sentence or two; and the same is true in many cases in regard to conciliar decisions. The merely argumentative and justificatory statements embodied in definitive judgments, however true and authoritative they may be, are not covered by the guarantee of infallibility which attaches to the strictly definitive sentences — unless, indeed, their infallibility has been previously or subsequently established by an independent decision.

You are changing the words of this quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia. It doesn't say, "organ of infallibility", it just says "organ". Furthermore, you are misinterpreting the sentence because the same article you are referring to confirms the ordinary magisterium is an organ of infallibility. Here's the complete quote from the article:

Mutual Relations of the Organs of Infallibility

A few brief remarks under this head will serve to make the Catholic conception of ecclesiastical infallibility still clearer. Three organs have been mentioned:

1) the bishops dispersed throughout the world in union with the Holy See;
2) ecuмenical councils under the headship of the pope; and
3) the pope himself separately.

Through the first of these is exercised what theologians describe as the ordinarium magisterium, i. e. the common or everyday teaching authority of the Church; through the second and third the magisterium solemne, or undeniably definitive authority...

Wait a minute...why leave the rest of the paragraph uncited?. It continues:

Quote from: 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia

Through the first of these is exercised what theologians describe as the ordinarium magisterium, i.e. the common or everyday teaching authority of the Church; through the second and third the magisterium solemne, or undeniably definitive authority. Practically speaking, at the present day, and for many centuries in the past, only the decisions of ecuмenical councils and the ex cathedra teaching of the pope have been treated as strictly definitive in the canonical sense, and the function of the magisterium ordinarium has been concerned with the effective promulgation and maintenance of what has been formally defined by the magisterium solemne or may be legitimately deduced from its definitions.

C'mon Cantarella.... This doesn't change the fact that this same article  we are speaking about confirms there are three organs if infallibility, one of them being the ordinary magisterium. And given all the other quotes I posted earlier today say the same, your argument is over. You are trying to cling to every little thing you can to say the ordinary magisterium is not infallible, but you have been disproven.

Please read very carefully the conclusion of the article:

What teaching is infallible?

A word or two under this head, summarizing what has been already explained in this and in other articles will suffice.

As regards matter, only doctrines of faith and morals, and facts so intimately connected with these as to require infallible determination, fall under the scope of infallible ecclesiastical teaching. These doctrines or facts need not necessarily be revealed; it is enough if the revealed deposit cannot be adequately and effectively guarded and explained, unless they are infallibly determined.

As to the organ of authority by which such doctrines or facts are determined, three possible organs exist. One of these, the Magisterium Ordinarium, is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically ineffective as an organ. The other two, however, are adequately efficient organs, and when they definitively decide any question of faith or morals that may arise, no believer who pays due attention to Christ's promises can consistently refuse to assent with absolute and irrevocable certainty to their teaching.

The Ordinary Magisterium (Magisterium Ordinarium), is liable to be somewhat indefinite in its pronouncements and, as a consequence, practically INEFFECTIVE as an organ. End of discussion.
 

Paul, I did not change one word from any of your quotes.

Post

First Vatican Council (1870):
"All those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the written Word of God or in Tradition, and which are proposed by the Church, either in solemn judgment or in its ordinary and universal teaching office, as divinely revealed truths which must be believed."

Canon Law 1323 (1917):
1. All of those things are to be believed with a divine and Catholic faith that are contained in the written word of God or in tradition and that the Church proposes as worthy of belief, as divinely revealed, whether by solemn judgment or by her ordinary and universal magisterium.

Commentary On Canon Law, Augustine (imprimatur, 1918) Canon 1323:
§ 1. All those truths which are contained in the written word of God, or in tradition, and proposed to our belief as divinely revealed either by a solemn proclamation or by the ordinary and universal magisterium of the Church must be believed by Divine and Catholic faith.
§ 3. Nothing is to be taken as dogmatically declared or defined, unless it is manifestly known to be such.
...that which is to be believed, is contained either in Holy Writ, as accepted by the Church, or in tradition, as preserved by the Church.

Then, from your same post, we get to the half truth from the Catechism "Explained".

The Catechism Explained (imprimatur, 1899) Page 237: The Infallibility of the Church
....it was quite sufficient that all the bishops should teach in the same sense in regard of any given subject to make that teaching infallible;
 

This "explanation" is the *only* "explanation" that nearly the entire world knows. Why? Because it's in the catechism. And look at that date - who authored that explanation - the UOM? No. As I said, the wrong teaching has been around for many decades.

It is because of THIS "explanation" that the Novus Ordo was able to be perpetrated on the lethargic Catholics of the 60s and 70s and till today. How can you NOT see this? - Or do you see it clear now?

What you are doing is you are completely ignoring what is taught, not only in the infallible decree you yourself posted, you are also ignoring all the commentaries which clearly explain the infallible decree you posted. As you ignore all of that, you are busy accepting the half truth "Explanation" and in the process helping the enemy promote the lie as a bonus.

Why are you doing this?