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Author Topic: How Not to Debate on CI  (Read 1809 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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Re: How Not to Debate on CI
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2017, 07:32:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on November 10, 2017, 06:43:36 PM
    They also taught high school young men or if you prefer to say, boys, so be it.

    However, consider St. Catherine of Siena who played an essential part in ending the Great Western Schism when she encouraged Blessed Pope Gregory XI in 1378.  Catholic history proves that many women taught the entire Church, both men, and women with their writings.
     
    Yet, if it bothers some men here that feel threatened they could put us on ignore, I don't know how to do it, but I remember DZ Please knows how maybe he will come along and tell the men here. OR we women can just post recipes and talk in the women's forum if you are afraid of teaching a man.
      
    I myself never felt I was teaching anyone but just sharing my views, but if I am sinning, I better just leave altogether.  Never to offend God again for I have offended Him in the past too much.  
    Blessings to all
    It has nothing to do with anybody feeling threatened or afraid. It is about accepting traditional norms of behaviour for men and women. I do not see anything wrong with a man if he does not appreciate having women scolding and lecturing him.  It seems perfectly understandable to me.

    While it is true that there were extraordinary female Saints, we should imitate their virtues rather than use them as an excuse to ignore traditional women's role.  And no woman was declared a Doctor of the Church until after Vatican II, so we should be cautious about claiming that women have taught the whole Church through their writings.

    Of course, on a discussion forum, women can be expected to share our views.  That is the point of being here.  But I think it is worth taking care to watch our tone when addressing men.  My first years on trad forums, I was very argumentative with everyone, including men, so I have had to put a lot of thought into how to change that.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #16 on: November 10, 2017, 11:42:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 10, 2017, 07:32:30 PM
    While it is true that there were extraordinary female Saints, we should imitate their virtues rather than use them as an excuse to ignore traditional women's role.  And no woman was declared a Doctor of the Church until after Vatican II, so we should be cautious about claiming that women have taught the whole Church through their writings.
    .
    Not only "until after Vat.II" but they used different criteria for the women. Traditionally to be declared a Doctor of the Church, one must have produced considerable writings expounding upon the teachings of the Church and giving the Apostolic Tradition a primary place in all those writings. When it came to St. Therese of Lisieux, she had written a few things, but not very much, and her writings were not addressed to students or to the faithful for understanding Church doctrine, but rather were autobiographical writings addressed to her own sister in letters and under obedience. St. Teresa of Avila wrote about her personal experiences. These things are beneficial for the Church but they are not what has typified writings of Church Doctors. 
    .
    A 4th grade girl student at a parochial school was given an essay question in a test in the mid-1990's about the Doctors of the Church, and in her answer she wrote, "There are 4 Doctors of the Church and they are all women." The principal of the school (a woman) thought that was a very charming answer.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 12:36:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on November 10, 2017, 06:43:36 PM
    They also taught high school young men or if you prefer to say, boys, so be it.

    However, consider St. Catherine of Siena who played an essential part in ending the Great Western Schism when she encouraged Blessed Pope Gregory XI in 1378.  Catholic history proves that many women taught the entire Church, both men, and women with their writings.
     
    Yet, if it bothers some men here that feel threatened they could put us on ignore, I don't know how to do it, but I remember DZ Please knows how maybe he will come along and tell the men here. OR we women can just post recipes and talk in the women's forum if you are afraid of teaching a man.
      
    I myself never felt I was teaching anyone but just sharing my views, but if I am sinning, I better just leave altogether.  Never to offend God again for I have offended Him in the past too much.  
    Blessings to all
    Oh no, please continue ma'am; this is all very enlightening and useful information. Can't wait to see what you have to say next.
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 03:02:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on November 10, 2017, 11:42:17 PM
    .
    Not only "until after Vat.II" but they used different criteria for the women. Traditionally to be declared a Doctor of the Church, one must have produced considerable writings expounding upon the teachings of the Church and giving the Apostolic Tradition a primary place in all those writings. When it came to St. Therese of Lisieux, she had written a few things, but not very much, and her writings were not addressed to students or to the faithful for understanding Church doctrine, but rather were autobiographical writings addressed to her own sister in letters and under obedience. St. Teresa of Avila wrote about her personal experiences. These things are beneficial for the Church but they are not what has typified writings of Church Doctors.
    .
    A 4th grade girl student at a parochial school was given an essay question in a test in the mid-1990's about the Doctors of the Church, and in her answer she wrote, "There are 4 Doctors of the Church and they are all women." The principal of the school (a woman) thought that was a very charming answer.
    .
    That is a really good explanation about female "Doctors of the Church".  Thank you.

    That story about the girl student is appalling, but it captures so much of what is wrong in the post-Conciliar Church.
    Charming!?! ::)
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 10:21:38 AM »
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    They (nuns)also taught high school young men or if you prefer to say, boys, so be it.
    That was a modern step in the slow boiling process to Vatican II, no matter if it was in the 1940's. Traditionally, and wisely, nuns did not teach any males other than male children, if that. A young man in high school is still a man. Additionally, girls went to  girls school and boys to boy school, no mixing.  It appears that like the school described above was also co-ed too.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 10:47:53 AM »
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    • "He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise" (Prov 13:20 )

    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something (Plato)
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 11:45:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on November 10, 2017, 05:27:16 PM
    What were you expecting from your first OP?  Did you just want folks to agree or disagree without saying anything else?  I didn't respond but I think it would be hard not to add comments about sedevacantism and EENS given that was the main thrust of the OP.
    Maybe this didn't come off properly, but this was a sincere question.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
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    • Quote
    What were you expecting from your first OP?  Did you just want folks to agree or disagree without saying anything else?  I didn't respond but I think it would be hard not to add comments about sedevacantism and EENS given that was the main thrust of the OP.
    If you just read every answer I gave on my thread you will know all my thoughts and expectations. My thread "Why I do Not Push the Sede Position" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/why-i-do-not-push-the-sede-position/ 
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 09:11:01 AM »
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    • There was something I was thinking of posting on another thread, but I derailed it enough already.  It kind of fits here as a positive example of how to post, in contrast with the topic of this thread.

    I really appreciate how DZ Please is constantly encouraging me to model myself after Our Blessed Mother.  And there are some women here whom I find helpful examples for that purpose.  This is the sort of thing that makes forums worthwhile for me and I find it far more valuable than any of the debate topics themselves.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 09:12:36 AM »
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    • "Deo gratias, et Mariae".
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 01:46:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 10, 2017, 06:01:54 AM
    Do not respond to women who debate (No problem answering the ladies who ask questions sincerely). Some men debate like women, taking everything personal, do not let them get your goat, they are like children. Would you debate with a child?
    Your last paragraph in the OP reads like the perfect example of how to derail a thread, the very thing you are complaining about.
    Ironic. Plenty of men debate like children at CI.
    Here's an idea: don't treat women like second class citizens for no reason, and you won't start a food fight. 
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