Author Topic: Name That Cleric  (Read 1486 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Name That Cleric
« on: February 20, 2010, 03:59:41 PM »
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  • "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 04:44:40 PM »
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  • Provide the surrounding context please.


    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 05:08:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    Provide the surrounding context please.


    He can't because that quote (and many of the others flouted on sedevacantist blogs) are taken out of context and passed around without seeing the original source.  I suspect that "Lover of Truth" has never seen the book he is quoting.

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 05:15:04 PM »
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  • I know, "Raoul" had the same problem.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 05:41:42 PM »
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  • "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 05:48:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    Provide the surrounding context please.


    Okay - here is another translation which includes the entire page from which the quote is taken: http://www.novusordowatch.org/benedict/sbce-trans.htm

    For a start, the quote relates to this: "In a strange manner, the Idealistic heresy (if this is what we wish to call it) is today connected with the Marxist one, about which Heidegger brilliantly said that materialism does not at all consist in interpreting all being as matter, but that it assesses all matter as the mere material [matter] of human labor."

    Cardinal Ratzinger then further says:

    "With these perspectives we have automatically returned to the starting point of our reflections. What in fact -- in this manner we can now ask again -- does the man do who celebrates the divine service of the Church, the sacraments of Jesus Christ? He does not abandon himself to the naive idea that God, the Omnipresent One, lives only at this place in space which is designated by the tabernacle in the church. This would already contradict the most superficial understanding of the dogmatic statement content, because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general [i.e. God as such] but the presence of the man Jesus Christ, which refers to [i.e. points to] the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man.

    [...]

    He who goes to church and celebrates her sacraments does not do so, either, if he understands everything correctly, because he thinks the spiritual God is in need of material [i.e. physical] media in order to touch the spirit of man."

    My only concern would be the meaning of the part I have put in italics - I am not sure whether that is orthodox thinking or not.  However, the rest of it seems fairly correct to me - it is wrong to think that God is present ONLY in the Eucharistic species.  The fact that the cardinal says "only" shows that he believes that God IS present in the Eucharist - but does not negate His omnipresence.

    Caminus, perhaps you can clarify the part in italics for me - does it seem okay to you?  This is, of course, a translation, but it may be completely okay and I am just not familiar with the way he is putting it.

    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 05:49:37 PM »
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  • Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 06:01:52 PM »
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  • Oh - and the sede site spells the title of the book wrong too - not a good start.  It is actually "Die Sacramentale Begrundung Christliche Existenz".


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 07:15:00 PM »
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  • I'm not sure what context would make such a quote Catholic.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 07:16:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I'm not sure what context would make such a quote Catholic.


    Really?  So you believe that God is present ONLY in the Blessed Eucharist and is not omnipresent?

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 07:22:52 PM »
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  • I can't find the book anywhere online in english.  Where did you get that translation Jamie?


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 07:38:15 PM »
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  • "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 08:05:20 PM »
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  • I don't think he was intending to deny the dogma of the real presence.  In fact, he affirmed it at one point.  Rather, he was laboring at another point, strained though it may have been.  You see, the problem with these men is that they have abandoned Scholasticism, traditional formula, piety, etc. and set out to put the teachings of faith into modern ways of expression.  This has been their stated goal from day one.  And the works they cite are examples of just how bad this endeavor can be.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 10:00:54 PM »
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  • Caminus said:
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    I don't think he was intending to deny the dogma of the real presence. In fact, he affirmed it at one point. Rather, he was laboring at another point, strained though it may have been


    That's Modernism 101.  They say heresy, and the next day they are orthodox.  Then it's back to heresy, and so on and so forth.  This leads to a kind of cycle of abuse, a form of Stockholm Syndrome among Catholics, that you can clearly see among the victims of SSPX at AngelQueen.  One moment they're bewailing Ratzinger's appointment of Levada to head the CDF, or they're mocking his ludicrous existential-New-Age-pseudo-Catholic blather, and then the next they're praying for the Holy Father to save the Church.  They're in deep denial.
     
    Pascendi Domenici Gregis:
    Quote
    "Further, none is more skilful, none more astute than they, in the employment of a thousand noxious arts; for they [ Modernists ] double the parts of rationalist and Catholic and this so craftily that they easily lead the unwary into error; and since audacity is their chief characteristic, there is no conclusion of any kind from which they shrink or which they do not thrust forward with pertinacity and assurance."
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 10:08:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    I don't think he was intending to deny the dogma of the real presence.  In fact, he affirmed it at one point.  Rather, he was laboring at another point, strained though it may have been.  You see, the problem with these men is that they have abandoned Scholasticism, traditional formula, piety, etc. and set out to put the teachings of faith into modern ways of expression.  This has been their stated goal from day one.  And the works they cite are examples of just how bad this endeavor can be.


    I will grant you this particular point (ON THIS PARTICULAR QUOTE though there are many other heretical quotes by the man which cannot be denied by the intellectually honest) that I am not sure if you are correct.  I hope to know more later.

    Piux X speaks of modernist who sound Catholic one moment and are heretical the next.  Ratzinger fits the modernist perfectly and the same holds for JP2.  It is as if Pius X saw into the future.  He condemns them almost verbatim though he had not read or heard what they said.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

     

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