Author Topic: N.O. Mass Has No Correlation With Loss of Faith (Read 6470 times)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2010, 03:33:23 PM »

Quote from: I

Show me the "good fruits" of VCII and the "OF"

Alexandria · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2010, 03:38:58 PM »

I can't wait for the response to that one.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2010, 03:40:16 PM »

It should be a dandy.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2010, 04:18:59 PM »

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It would appear obvious that a vat number of the Magisterium disagree with you. Having talked with Father Pacwa personally and having listened to him numerous times, I don't believe that he would ever teach about the EF by tering down the OF; and by the way, he says the OF. As does the Pope. And as does the vast majority of priests theroughout the world.

The OF has borne good fruit; it is just that you appear to be ignorant of it. Attacking it is unlikely to convince much of anyone unfamiliar with the EF that the EF is so superior.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2010, 04:22:13 PM »

Quote from: I

I never said Fr. Pacwa attacked the OF. Did you even read what I said?

What good fruit has the OF borne?

Alexandria · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2010, 04:23:04 PM »

Please do keep at him for the good fruits of VII. This should be a revelation. :wink:

Alexandria · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2010, 06:23:13 PM »

I'm still waiting, Stevus.

Perhaps he needs a lot of time to formulate his response. I bet bible reading is one of them. I hope he doesn't say something sappy like the church is more "loving and compassionate."

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2010, 06:48:01 PM »

Someone else called him out too

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So answer the question and provide examples.

Still no answer...

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2010, 07:01:18 PM »

Answer from another lib:

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As my generation gets older, you will see some of this fruit. I pray that the fruits of my labor is borne at some point. You can also look at the fruits of certain Religious Orders, such as the Dominicans, the Franciscans, the Salesians of Saint John Bosco, and the Companions of the Cross and see the fruits they have brought.

On a personal note....for two years I've doing R.C.I.T. (RCIA for teens). I instruct them as the enter the Church. For the last seven years or so I've been active in youth ministry. With that one line above, (and I'm being serious as I say this) and with your comment on the OF, you have just told me I've been wasting my time. Wasting my life, even. That these years of efforts have borne nothing at all.

If I'm not mistaken, you've essentially called me a failure. And a heretic too most likely.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2010, 07:03:37 PM »

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Again, what impact has the SSPX had on the Church? Is this the legacy of the SSPX?

Quote:
Matthew 7:16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.

__________________

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2010, 07:12:36 PM »

Quote from: I

Society Fruits: thriving seminaries, large families, academies, true religious life, Traditional priesthood and sacraments preserved, true Ignatian retreats, TLM preserved, reverence in every Mass and Chapel,Indult, FSSP, ICK & Ecclessia Dei communities, universal freeing of the TLM after 40+ years of bondage, remitting of "excommunications" and now doctrinal discussions to finally clear up VCII for the entire Church after 50 years.

Fruits of VCII/ NO: Empty seminaries, loss of faith, sex abuse scandals and cover-ups destroyed Church credibility, loss of vocations, lack of reverence, "Silent apostasy"- JPII, "Smoke of Satan entering the Church"- Paul VI, "NO is a banal on the spot product"- Card. Ratzinger, Protestantized beliefs & worship, ugliness in church architecture, CITH, girl altar boys.

Not to mention this and this.

But, of course you will ignore all of this and parrot out "obedience", "springtime", "silence".

For those who have eyes to see, let him see...

Alexandria · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2010, 07:16:13 PM »

I agree about the fruits in the Dominicans and Franciscans, but I have no knowledge of them in the Salesians or the "Companions of the Cross." :wink:

I could feel sorry for this JPII generation if they weren't so arrogant, smug and self-righteous. This particular poster is quite pleased with himself, as most of them are. I can see all of the self-esteem nonsense has produced an obnoxious generation or two.

Sorry to sound so hard but I've had it with these people.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2010, 08:14:21 PM »

I believe God has had it with them, too, Alexandria (and with the rest of us to boot). IMO, that is what this time, from now to 2012 and beyond, is all about -- purification of hearts. Cor Jesu Sacratissimum, miserere nobis

Caraffa · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2010, 10:12:31 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

You're talking about the generic, run of the mill Novus Ordo Catholic and yeah, I have talked to some of them and know very well that their brains have been sucked out and replaced. It's like they have no background to their faith; they don't know about saints, they don't know about dogmas. You quote a fairly well-known saying of Jesus to them and it's like they've never heard it before. About all they know is the Golden Rule. "Jesus" as far as they're concerned is some vague, shadowy figure in the sky who helps them earn money and have BMWs. Just like with Protestants, as you say.

Exactly, your average Novus Ordo Catholic is Protestant in the American Evangelical Rick Warren/Joel Osteen tradition. It's Moralistic Therapeutic Deism which is the dominant religion of America (and VII?) in general. The 5 main tenants of MTD are,

1. A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.
2. God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.
3. The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.
4. God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.
5. "Good" people go to heaven when they die.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2010, 10:29:15 PM »

Well said. You summed up the American religion in a nutshell.