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Author Topic: My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...  (Read 5222 times)

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Offline Jehanne

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My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
« on: October 14, 2014, 05:33:25 AM »
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  • First, "gαy sex" -- It's perverse and disgusting, contrary to natural and divine law, gravely sinful and mortally so; it can and will lead souls to the deeper levels of eternal Hell, forever and ever.  In times past, Catholic princes, as the civil guardians of their subjects' souls, had not only the right, but the duty, to punish ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts, up to, and including, public immolation.

    Now, as for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs themselves, if they are willing to lead a completely chaste lifestyle in complete continence with regular, if not frequent, confession, then, yes, they should be allowed to receive the Holy Eucharist, and, indeed, serve the One True Church, the Catholic Church, in a capacity as laypeople, but never in the capacity of Holy Orders.

    BUT, what happened to,

    Quote
    "Don't ask, don't tell!!!"


    If someone is gαy, then they do not need to "advertise" that!  The only people who need to know are their Confessors, and absolutely, positively no one else!  In fact, it would be sinful for someone who, through no fault of their own, had ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs desires and/or inclinations to reveal such to another individual, let alone in the external forum!  Such things belong in the internal forum, specifically, in the confessional, where the Seal will guarantee absolute privacy.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 08:49:01 AM »
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  • Honestly, when I read posts like the one from GJC, I sometimes wonder which is worse,

    1) being excessively "welcoming" to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs

    or

    2) the bitter hateful self-righteous contempt for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs exhibited by many Traditional Catholics (constant derogatory terms such as "fag" being thrown around)

    We must have compassion upon those who have been enslaved by the inclination and we must pray for them.  There but for the grace of God go all of us as well.  Were it not for the grace of God we too could easily be sodomites.  So stop the self-righteous chest-beating.

    And, with regard to the term sodomite, there is INDEED a real distinction between those who practice sins against nature (sodomy) and those who have a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ orientation only and are fighting it, a HUGE distinction.

    So give it a rest already.  Just thank God that you are not afflicted with this vice and pray with compassion for those who are.

    Where the recent "Relatio" crosses the line is in seeing anything inherently positive in the orientation itself.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 09:04:21 AM »
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  • Honestly, the more time I spend reading posts which exhibit self-righteous contemptuous pharisaical bitter zeal, the more tempted I am to just walk away from so-called Traditional Catholicism.  There are days that the natural kindness of a Francis appeals to me much more than this dark bitterness.  Our Lord condemned the Pharisees (who were orthodox) much more harshly than the Sadducees and Samaritans (who were heretics).

    I think that Our Lord's parable about the Pharisee and the Publican could be reformulated as "The Trad and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ".  You have someone fighting a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ inclination and showing deep contrition before God for it and the self-righteous Trad.  Who goes home justified?

    This is probably why Traditional Catholicism is so sterile.  Truth and charity go hand in hand.  If we rebuke active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs with compassion, for love of their souls, it's done out of charity not out of self-righteous bitter zeal.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #3 on: October 14, 2014, 09:08:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Now, as for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs themselves, if they are willing to lead a completely chaste lifestyle in complete continence with regular, if not frequent, confession, then, yes, they should be allowed to receive the Holy Eucharist, and, indeed, serve the One True Church, the Catholic Church, in a capacity as laypeople, but never in the capacity of Holy Orders.


    That should go without saying.

    Agreed on all points.  Even if someone does have the inclinations against nature, it should be kept private.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #4 on: October 14, 2014, 09:23:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: GJC
    Hatred of sin and hatred of the sinner are two different things.


    Correct.  It is YOU who are blurring the two; that's quite evident from your rhetoric.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #5 on: October 14, 2014, 09:25:20 AM »
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  • Hatred for sin is nothing but an expression of love for the good.  When hatred ceases to be an act of love, it's a disorder.  I hate sin precisely because I love the sinner afflicted by it and the harm it does to his soul, and I pray that the sinner be delivered from his sin.

    Offline s2srea

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 09:37:03 AM »
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  • I agree with GJC, we should stop using the word, "gαy".

    If someone has the misfortune to have an unnatural/perverted attraction to persons of the same sex, then the attraction is, per se, out of his control, and is no sin. That does not make him a sodomite. It make him an unfortunate soul upon whom we should feel sad for and pray for. It is also someone who ought, at the direction of his confessor, take the greatest care with his inclinations, which can lead to the worst kind of sin.

    Acting upon those feelings, whether privately or publicly, is what makes someone a sodomite/ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ/"gαy". Often times, those persons are so affected by their sin, which I imagine begins privately through the use of pornography, that when they "come out" (accept publicly their attachment to their sin) they are in a sort of full on militaristic defense of their perverted ways; the devil has such control over them.

    As an aside, that is why people like the figure from Ignus Ardens, JuddeusMacabeus (?)/ Clare/ Impy is so dangerous. He comes on this forum with a deliberate intention, it seems, to show a false-charity. That, he's just a nice guy who 'loves' God too. But we cannot love God if we refuse to accept his truths, and deny ourselves. More could be said....

    That said, it is simply a reality of our world that this sort of perverted attraction is/seems far more common that it was before; it seems as if something changed drastically since WWII. Whatever the cause, I'm in agreement with Ladislaus that that there is a strong detachment from any sense of prudence among many traditional Catholics when dealing with this subject. It is true, we must hate the sin and love the sinner. If that is the case, we must approach these situations with care and ask ourselves how best to turn that sinner from his sin. Is it to simply attack-attack-attack the sin? No. I forget the saint (Francis de Sales?) who said (something to the effect) that no one has ever been converted through argumentation, but through charity and good example.


    Offline BTNYC

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 10:06:35 AM »
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  • Not only should we stop using the word "gαy," we should stop using the word "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ" and reject the modernist lie that habitual sodomy constitutes some kind of "orientation" that defines the person in some deep, ontological way.

    A Catholic of good will who is tempted to sodomy but does not act on it would not define himself as a "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ" and would certainly not identify himself publicly as one. The knowledge of his inclination to that particular sin would not go anywhere outside of the confessional. So the whole issue of "charity for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs" is in fact a non-issue. If you're a good willed Catholic deserving of my charity, you will show some common sense and discretion and not advertise the fact that you have an inclination to the Sin against Nature.

    Consider for a moment how absurd it would be if we were discussing "compassion" and "charity" for pederasts or bestialists or compulsive masturbators. "Well of course, I don't believe Holy Communion should be given to pederasts, but we should treat them with compassion and charity." No we bloody well should not! If the person in question is so intransigently attached to his perverse disorder that he's willing to announce himself to all and sundry as a "pederast," then he damn well ought to be shunned and treated as a pariah, lest our false compassion for him become a genuine offense against charity for the sinner himself and those who will be scandalized by our tacit validation of his "lifestyle." So it would be with pederasts, so let it be with sodomites.

    And a "fαɢɢօt" is a bundle of sticks used for kindling. This word grew to be applied to sodomites because that's just exaclty what a practitioner of sodomy is - kindling for hellfire. That epithet came into being in generations of old that were much less inimical to natural law than our own perverse generation, so I would not be so quick to throw away such a good, traditional word. We are, after all, Traditional Catholics, aren't we?

    A good quote from an unchawitable pharisee Catholic Saint:

    'Whenever you hear sodomy mentioned, each and every one of you spit on the ground and clean your mouth out as well. If they don't want to change their ways by any other means, maybe they will change when they're made fools of. Spit hard! Maybe the water of your spit will extinguish their fire.'

    St. Bernardine of Siena


    Offline s2srea

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 10:21:16 AM »
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  • Better said by BTNYC.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 10:47:18 AM »
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  • You guys just keep telling yourselves that you're motivated by charity.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 10:49:48 AM »
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  • Sodomy = acting up the orientation, whereas ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is the orientation itself.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 10:56:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    "Well of course, I don't believe Holy Communion should be given to pederasts, but we should treat them with compassion and charity." No we bloody well should not!


    You fail to define "treat".  In some cases, harsh TREATMENT can in fact be charity.  Nevertheless, even the most militant ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ was created by God; God loves him and died for him and deeply desires his conversion.  But the harsh treatment, if deemed necessary from CHARITY, must still be accompanied by an ATTITUDE of love and compassion.  That's clearly not where you people are coming from.

    Offline Ursus

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 10:58:07 AM »
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  • The word "gαy" to describe a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is pandering to their agenda. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is the neutral word to describe them. Sodomy/sodomite would be confusing to the uninformed.

    Offline procopius

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 11:26:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ursus
    The word "gαy" to describe a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is pandering to their agenda. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is the neutral word to describe them. Sodomy/sodomite would be confusing to the uninformed.


    ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is not neutral.  We don't call pedophiles pedosɛҳuąƖs do we?  The purpose of coining the phrase Homo-sɛҳuąƖ was to make people believe that there was legitimacy to the homo perversion, like it was just different form of sɛҳuąƖity.  sɛҳuąƖity is defined by how a creature reproduces; humans are all heterosɛҳuąƖ, amoebas are asɛҳuąƖ.  Calling a human a homo-sɛҳuąƖ implies they reproduce with the same sex, which is false.  People need to stop using the language of those with an evil agenda.  I prefer homophiles as a term to call them. Adding "phile" at the end really drives home what they really are.

    Offline BTNYC

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    My two cents on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity...
    « Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 12:41:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    You guys just keep telling yourselves that you're motivated by charity.


    Are you claiming to know what motivates us?

    Do you read hearts or are you simply forgetting to make the Thomistic distinctions between Objective and Subjective Judgments?