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Author Topic: My take on Sedevacantism  (Read 670 times)

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Offline Matthew

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My take on Sedevacantism
« on: July 17, 2010, 11:30:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    If the SSPX keeps pumping blood into this false Rome, in a generation or two, unless God intervenes, the Catholic religion is dead.


    Everyone on here has their particular "gift" to the Traditional Catholic community -- a "thesis" or single thought that they would like 100% of Catholics to consider.
    Maybe I should modify the site so that each person can put in their 1-paragraph "summary" of their view of the Crisis...

    Anyhow, here's mine!

    We have to trust in God. God is in control; we don't need to get all excited. We need to do our best: keep the faith, pray, hope, and keep trying to convert those in Rome, even if it seems hopeless. That is how the saints acted.

    We're not supposed to get frustrated and impatient. Sedevacantism strikes me as a clear-cut, quick & easy solution; one that appeals to the frustrated and/or impatient.

    I'm a big picture person. I don't get lost in details. I'm not the type to read "cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio", then slam it down and say, "We have an impostor, not a pope!"
    That is because I have an tendency to stability, loyalty, and circuмspection. I consider all the various angles, and keep the big picture before me always. I didn't side with the SSPX for just one or two reasons, and I'm sure not going to leave it for one or two reasons.

    The way I see it (after attending Seminary for 3 1/3 years, reading literally hundreds of books, many of which were saints biographies, etc.), a sedevacantist and I could engage in the same Catholic practices, with only one difference between us. I don't deny the current Pope, while he does. Do you REALLY think God is going to hold it against ANY Catholic if they maintain prayer for the pope, and acknowledge his papacy? Let's see, we're CATHOLIC. Newsflash! Devotion to the Pope is a Catholic thing going back millenia, nevermind centuries. You think God will hold it against any of us, if we stick to traditional Catholic dogma, practices, morality, the timeless Traditional Latin Mass, etc., but fail to denounce the pope personally? Come on!

    Just for starters, none of our exemplars -- the Saints -- were sedevacantist. We don't have any saints whose claim to fame was "seeing through the heretic" and being so "zealous for the purity of the Faith" that they denounced the man who the world held to be Pope. It simply isn't a Catholic virtue.

    Furthermore, I believe that if you consider the SSPX and/or the 1962 Mass "evil", you are dangerously close to blasphemy, if you haven't already crossed the line. Because you're essentially saying that the Catholic religion has been routed, destroyed, defeated, mortally wounded by the devil. In other words, the gates have hell have prevailed against the Church. You know, the opposite of what Jesus Christ promised.

    Yes, a man can hold his breath for 2 minutes, 5 minutes if he's really good, but 3 hours?
    The Church can survive without a Pope for a few weeks, maybe even a few months... but 40+ years? 100+ years? That's called a F-A-I-L-U-R-E of Christ's promise to be with His Church till the end of time; that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Unless the General Judgment is this Sunday, something's wrong with that scenario. When the last Pope dies, the Angels sent to gather the elect have already packed their lunches and are pulling out of their driveways, headed for earth. How could there be a 40+ year delay?

    Matthew
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    My take on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 11:50:23 PM »
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  • You left off the last paragraph. Sure, it was directed at Raoul, but I thought it made a good point nonetheless.

    Quote from: Matthew
    My opinion of Raoul76 is that he is too worldly-minded, too materialistic, and too unfamiliar with the Science of the Saints. He doesn't understand how God has worked in the past, so he's got it totally wrong on how God is acting in the present, and will act in the future. The saints were very, very passive. They let the Holy Ghost direct them, rather than their emotions and inclinations. They relied on spiritual direction, meditation, as well as the situation itself to determine God's will. They did their duties, and if God wanted to make things happen, things happened. If someone was supposed to be Pope but the man fled to the woods out of humility, a bright light would shine on him in the woods, illuminating the poor humble man so everyone found him (true story!) If God wanted a "true Pope" to be elected now, it would happen -- nay, it would have already happened. You think we can stop God's will? If so, then you know nothing of the nature of God's will.

    Raoul76 is too active, too American in that respect.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline DecemRationis

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    My take on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 01:33:44 AM »
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  • Quote
    Furthermore, I believe that if you consider the SSPX and/or the 1962 Mass "evil", you are dangerously close to blasphemy, if you haven't already crossed the line. Because you're essentially saying that the Catholic religion has been routed, destroyed, defeated, mortally wounded by the devil. In other words, the gates have hell have prevailed against the Church. You know, the opposite of what Jesus Christ promised.


    Wow. My sentiments exactly. Only delete "the SSPX and/or the 1962 Mass" and substitute the Novus Ordo. With the substitution, you are seeing this closing on blasphemy by the SSPX.

    Anyone who believes the last four pontiffs and practically all the bishops in union with him in the Latin Rite over the last 40 years have set up altars where sacrilege is offered up under the guise of the Holy Mass has the gates of Hell prevailing.

    Gotta hand it to you for irony, Matthew. Wow.

    DR
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SJB

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    My take on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 06:04:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    We have to trust in God. God is in control; we don't need to get all excited. We need to do our best: keep the faith, pray, hope, and keep trying to convert those in Rome, even if it seems hopeless. That is how the saints acted.


    Agreed, but those who need truly need converted are not Catholics. Heretics and schismatics convert, not Catholics. I assume you mean "converted" to your position, not Catholicism.

    Quote from: Matthew
    We're not supposed to get frustrated and impatient. Sedevacantism strikes me as a clear-cut, quick & easy solution; one that appeals to the frustrated and/or impatient.


    If you have a heretical pope, it is a solution. The problem is much larger than simply a heretical pope, as I know you understand, Matthew.

    Quote from: Matthew
    I'm a big picture person. I don't get lost in details. I'm not the type to read "cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio", then slam it down and say, "We have an impostor, not a pope!"


    The "big picture" also includes sound Catholic theology. What many traditional Catholic sedes forget is that they don't have the "solution" to the crisis by recognizing the pope is not the pope. Matthew doesn't have a solution either.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil