Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Matthew on December 31, 2020, 10:24:35 PM
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First of all, I don't have any envy/spite for Taylor Marshall. I resent all the attention he gets, when much wiser and knowledgeable men* are being ignored. I question why johnny-come-latelies and converts (who almost always have a LOT of studying and catching up to do) must always be the teachers and spokesmen of the Faith. Why can't a few experienced, well educated Trads* take these roles?
I have a problem when men like Marshall claim to have "discovered" Tradition and try to become the spokesperson, talking head, and poster boy for the movement -- when this movement is 50 years old. If Marshall would give credit to +ABL, Bishop Williamson, dozens of good SSPX and Resistance priests, etc. it would be different. But he acts like he's discovered a new world and makes NO reference to any pioneers older than him. HE is the one late to the party. Nice of him to finally show up! But let's give some credit to the men who were fighting the good fight back in the 70's when it was MOST UNFASHIONABLE to do so, the real pioneers, who made the comfortable, Indult "Latin Mass" Catholicism of today possible. I'm talking about bishops, +ABL, various independent priests, prominent laymen, etc.
There are threads about Marshall here on CI about his background which is problematic.
If he's said any "good stuff" thus far it would only be because he's standing on the shoulders of giants. He needs to give some credit. You don't see me talking all the credit in my tiny apostolate here on CI -- I make constant references to my mentors and teachers. That's how it should be.
Taylor Marshall has a PhD, but it's not at a Trad university. He currently has 315,000 followers on Youtube alone. I don't think he's 315X smarter than Ladislaus or Sean Johnson, who has much more *relevant* knowledge and wisdom as valued by Traditional Catholics. How many followers did Sean's blog(s) have? How much attention do Sean or Lad's posts get on CathInfo today? How many copies of Sean's book sold? If Sean's blogs had a thousand followers, I'd be surprised. And here this Novus PhD "discovers" the Latin Mass and the whole conservative Catholic world swoons over him. Like I said, I don't hate him, he's just NOT my cuppa tea. I'd just like to see a more deserving man in his place.* Someone who is NOT controlled opposition would be a great start.
* I can think of at least 15 trad men who I've met, who would better teachers of men. Some are on this forum, some are not. I am explicitly excluding myself, BTW, for purposes of this discussion, so as not to taint or bias it with vainglory/pride.
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You can say this same thing about others as well. I tried to watch a YouTube video between two prominent "Trads" just yesterday, but it's tough to stomach. They both have big followings and consider themselves "Trad" (though, the do tread very lightly around that term as if there's still a few too many cooties there for them) but think their own personal revelations about the situation of the Church are more laudable than those giants of the past 50 years who've come way, way, way before them. The topic of this particular video was "Why Catholics Can't Reject Vatican II" and some day I might listen long enough to hear whatever their reasoning was, but when they don't even bother to reference the decades of scholars who've come before them, I somehow doubt they're more enlightened than anyone else. If they'd just stop calling themselves "Trads", I wouldn't be bothered by any of it, but it seems the term is being hijacked by what I'd call "conservative Catholics". Simply preferring a Latin Mass doesn't make you a Traditional Catholic.
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By the way, here is my personal interpretation of his name:
Taylor = a lastname-firstname (how modern!), the meaning of which is "tailor". He is trying to STITCH TOGETHER all Trads into one group, so they can be led "wherever" (probably not anywhere good).
Reed = used in duck calls. He is calling out to the whole Catholic world like a HUNTER calls ducks. But what lies in store for ducks when they respond to the call of a HUNTER'S duck call? ...
Marshall = His job is "to marshal" us. The noun "marshall" is interesting too, but I want to draw your attention to:
Definition of marshal (Entry 2 of 2)
1: to place in proper rank or position
marshaling the troops
2: to bring together and order in an appropriate or effective way
marshal arguments
marshaled her thoughts before answering the question
3: to lead ceremoniously or solicitously : USHER (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/usher)
marshaling her little group of children down the street
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marshal
I know you don't get to pick your own name, but WOWZA you just can't make this stuff up! Someone, somewhere is laughing at us all.
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You can say this same thing about others as well. I tried to watch a YouTube video between two prominent "Trads" just yesterday, but it's tough to stomach. They both have big followings and consider themselves "Trad" (though, the do tread very lightly around that term as if there's still a few too many cooties there for them) but think their own personal revelations about the situation of the Church are more laudable than those giants of the past 50 years who've come way, way, way before them.
I agree. I don't even know the names of most of these pseudo-Trad "personalities".
For various reasons, I was introduced to Taylor Marshall and so he is more familiar to me. So that's why I single him out, or pick on him, as it were.
But you're right -- it's not just him. It's everyone like him -- all the converts who instantly take their place as spokesmen for Tradition and teachers of men, even though they have no Trad qualifications to speak of. Just the edifying or inspiring fact of their conversion. That's their whole resume. And people follow them like they should be following a Bishop Williamson or other Trad cleric with much more experience, knowledge, wisdom, and graces of state.
By the way, if the convert in question is humble -- and he is just FORCED into fame and prominence, he will at least defer and constantly reference said experienced, senior clerics, giving them full credit and deference. That's how you can tell the difference between legitimate, humble leaders, and those who are just narcissistic and "all about me".
Even Bishop Williamson offers a bibliography. He referenced all kinds of teachers, authors, and clerics, not the least of which was +ABL, always giving credit where it was due. Many of the names were French or other European and meant nothing to me (before my time, just a name, never met them), but he did mention them.
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The fact of the matter is, an average Trad man who has read "Plot against the Church", a couple books on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, all the +ABL books, etc. would have a clearer picture of the Crisis in the Church -- and more solid "meat" to talk about in a video blog -- than Taylor Marshall had on the day he received his PhD.
Now can anyone say that just because you read 20 books, you are qualified to be a prominent personality with 315,000 Youtube subscribers? No. How long would it take to read 20 or 25 books, really? A lot less than it would take to get a PhD!
But that's my point. In the Trad world, the stuff Taylor breathlessly reveals to the world as his own academic discovery is actually quite banal. Stuff every Trad knows. So banal, it can't even be monetized in any way. The Freemasons infiltrated the Church? YOU DON'T SAY!
I wish Trads could parlay such a banal piece of knowledge into a full-time career complete with worldwide name recognition. But apparently in the Trad world, it takes literal genius to rise above the noise, since Trads in general are a well educated and smart bunch.
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In the Trad world, the stuff Taylor breathlessly reveals to the world as his own academic discovery is actually quite banal. Stuff every Trad knows. So banal, it can't even be monetized in any way. The Freemasons infiltrated the Church? YOU DON'T SAY!
"It can't even be monetized in any way" - He has successfully monetized it a great deal. He makes a lot of money being a trad celebrity with his books and his patreon supporters. I did not think that was possible, but one thing I like about Marshall is that he seems to be bringing a lot of conservative Catholics into trad land, and whatever flaws Marshall has perhaps when those new trads learn more, they will overcome them and become more traditional.
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Yeah, Taylor is a poor, poor, poor man’s Michael Davies. He’s the youtube, electronic, Internet version of what John Venari did with CFN, except Taylor is 100% pro-Indult and much less knowledgeable. Taylor only exists because so few priests have time to talk about current events.
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Dr. Taylor Marshall proudly claims to be part Jєωιѕн and in his owns words, is clearly linked to Opus Dei.
Opus Dei is Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ inside the Catholic Church.
What else do you need to know to discern if he's a genuine traditional Catholic... or not?
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Dr. Taylor Marshall proudly claims to be part Jєωιѕн and in his owns words, is clearly linked to Opus Dei.
Opus Dei is Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ inside the Catholic Church.
What else do you need to know to discern if he's a genuine traditional Catholic... or not?
Marshall is part Jєωιѕн? Reminds me of Ryan (Statism is evil) Grant. I would not be surprised if all of our trad leaders are part Jєωιѕн and only pretending to be trad. Perhaps even Bishop Williamson.
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Since our natural Catholic leaders have been taken away from us, as Father Denis Fahey stated,
it's necessary for the remnant to question and scrutinize anyone claiming to be a Catholic authority.
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Marshall is part Jєωιѕн? Reminds me of Ryan (Statism is evil) Grant. I would not be surprised if all of our trad leaders are part Jєωιѕн and only pretending to be trad. Perhaps even Bishop Williamson.
Merely having Jєωιѕн blood doesn't mean that you can't be a Catholic. Of course, there is a huge difference between being racially Jєωιѕн but being truly Catholic (ex. St. Vincent of Ferrer, Francois Libermann) as opposed to being Jєωιѕн and converting to Catholicism so that you can propagate тαℓмυdism within the Church.
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Marshall is part Jєωιѕн? Reminds me of Ryan (Statism is evil) Grant. I would not be surprised if all of our trad leaders are part Jєωιѕн and only pretending to be trad. Perhaps even Bishop Williamson.
Just because something is metaphysically possible doesn't mean it's morally possible.
It is metaphysically impossible for a computer program to gain sentience or self-awareness. It would never happen; it would be a contradiction involving the ESSENCE of a thing. Like a square circle.
Moral certainty isn't the same as scientific or metaphysical certainty, but you can be virtually certain, certainly enough to act on and make judgments.
We can be morally certain Bishop Williamson isn't a Jew. Just for starters, he didn't beam onto the planet 30 years ago or come out of nowhere. He has a past, which is well-docuмented. He even released a biography which handed the whole world his past life on a silver platter. He just made his past "open source". Anyone is welcome to double-check his story. And FYI, Bishop Williamson was an Anglican before his conversion, not Jєωιѕн.
And Bishop Williamson has done more in his lifetime (so far!) to unmask Jєωιѕн perfidy than most other men, past or present. He is in an elite club of Jew-exposers.
The truth can be known. It's not that hard. Some truth, some facts, and a little logic, and you can build up the edifice of truth. You don't have to go crazy. Go ahead and drink that coffee, it's not poison, even if you think hard that it's poison. Objective reality reigns over us all with a comforting, familiar hand.
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And Bishop Williamson has done more in his lifetime (so far!) to unmask Jєωιѕн perfidy than most other men, past or present. He is in an elite club of Jew-exposers.
And let us not forget that Bishop Williamson put himself before the firing squad for speaking the truth as no one else in his position has in exposing the "Jew" deceptions.
Bishop Williamson may even be seen to have undergone a white martyrdom.
GOD BLESS him for his courage.
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And Bishop Williamson has done more in his lifetime (so far!) to unmask Jєωιѕн perfidy than most other men, past or present. He is in an elite club of Jew-exposers.
I don't actually doubt Bishop Williamson. I was just being hyperbolic. Of those alive today I respect Williamson more than nearly all. He is right up there with Hugh Akins, and even higher because of the dignity of his Holy Orders and his leadership in the Church.
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You can say this same thing about others as well. I tried to watch a YouTube video between two prominent "Trads" just yesterday, but it's tough to stomach. They both have big followings and consider themselves "Trad" (though, the do tread very lightly around that term as if there's still a few too many cooties there for them) but think their own personal revelations about the situation of the Church are more laudable than those giants of the past 50 years who've come way, way, way before them. The topic of this particular video was "Why Catholics Can't Reject Vatican II" and some day I might listen long enough to hear whatever their reasoning was, but when they don't even bother to reference the decades of scholars who've come before them, I somehow doubt they're more enlightened than anyone else. If they'd just stop calling themselves "Trads", I wouldn't be bothered by any of it, but it seems the term is being hijacked by what I'd call "conservative Catholics". Simply preferring a Latin Mass doesn't make you a Traditional Catholic.
That is a diamond bullet between the eyeballs clarity statement. How many souls have The Mass without The Faith? (Even amongst so called SSPX diehards who have drank the Kool Aid and really don't want to know how the Society has fallen. Not easy being a Resistance mole but for now the sacraments are still valid even though the preaching is pathetic.)
Objective ratification from a true source of Tradition is a necessity to determine one's own authenticity as a Traditional Catholic.
(Eternal gratitude to my prime mentors His Excellency +Williamson, and Father Girouard)
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I think TM's audience is NOT trads, but rather NO Catholics, prots, "conservatives" and misc. info junkies. Nothing is stopping anyone else from starting their own website, so it's not like he's taking away anything from anybody.
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I think TM's audience is NOT trads, but rather NO Catholics, prots, "conservatives" and misc. info junkies. Nothing is stopping anyone else from starting their own website, so it's not like he's taking away anything from anybody.
^^^this^^^
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I think TM's audience is NOT trads, but rather NO Catholics, prots, "conservatives" and misc. info junkies. Nothing is stopping anyone else from starting their own website, so it's not like he's taking away anything from anybody.
Don't agree. Marshall promotes interesting trad stuff. That's his attraction. Voris does the same thing.
They "hawk" the traditional treasures of the Church, under the guise of being Catholics headed to a tradition.
But in Marshall's case, most don't realize they are getting trad stuff from an Opus dei loving jew. Very dangerous.
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I could be completely wrong here, and I hope that I am, but it seemed to me that the pmama stunt almost "baptized" the figure.
It should have been destroyed and burned like any other occult artifact.
Sigh, I hate thinking that way but the way of the world requires a keen eye...
In any case, I'm glad someone at least did something and I hope TM is a stepping stone for people and does more good than harm.
Not a fan of his Trump worship though.
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In any case, I'm glad someone at least did something and I hope TM is a stepping stone for people and does more good than harm.
Like V2, 95% correct LOL.
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^^^this^^^
I'll second that. Cera's post summed up the Taylor Marshall situation quite well.