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Author Topic: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus  (Read 9857 times)

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Offline Romulus

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Re: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2021, 07:30:41 PM »
I only follow Pope Michael.... :incense:
Wait...seriously?

Offline Cryptinox

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Re: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2021, 11:28:47 PM »
Ladislaus would demand a conditional ordination and consecration as the first step, because otherwise he would not be a true Pope and the consecration wouldn't be valid. I wonder which Bishops Ladislaus would choose to ordain and consecrate Francis.
Actually anyone who accepts the papacy gets the office at the moment of their acceptance of office.
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The holy synod decrees that the person elected as pope is obliged to express his consent to the election in the manner stated below. It is fitting that this consent should be made to the cardinals, if the person elected is present in the curia, or to one of the cardinals or someone mandated by them if he is not present there, in the presence of a notary and at least ten persons. After he has been informed of the election, he is bound to act within a day of the demand. If he does not do so, his election is annulled and the cardinals must proceed in the Lord's name to another election. But if he expresses his consent, as stated above, the cardinals shall straightaway[or 'immediately'] make due obeisance to him as supreme pontiff. Once the obeisance has been made by the cardinals, nobody has any right to challenge his pontificate. -Council of Florence, Decree "On the Election of the Supreme Pontiff" Session 23, 1436
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“Even if a layman were elected pope, he could accept the election only if he were fit for ordination and willing to be ordained. But the power to teach and govern, as well as the divine gift of infallibility, would be granted to him from the very moment of his acceptance, even before his ordination.” -Pope Pius XII, Guiding Principles of the Lay Apostolate, 1957
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“The Roman Pontiff, legitimately elected, immediately upon accepting the election, obtains by divine law the full power of supreme jurisdiction.” 1917 Roman Code of Canon Law, Canon 219
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"When the canonical election has taken place, the junior Cardinal Deacon summons the Secretary of the Sacred College, the Prefect of Apostolic Ceremonies and two Masters of Ceremonies into the chapel, and the Dean of the Sacred College in the name of all asks the one elected whether he accepts the office. He must express his acceptance or refusal of the office within the period of time determined by the Sacred College by majority vote of the Cardinals. The moment he accepts, he is the true Pope and obtains and may exercise full and absolute jurisdiction over the whole world. The Dean asks him what name he chooses. The acceptance of the office and the choice of a name are then certified by docuмent. This done, the Cardinals show the first "adoration" to the new Pope and the Te Deum is sung, after which the first Cardinal Deacon announces the new Pope to the people, before whom after a short interval the new Pope appears and gives the blessing Urbi et Orbi. This is followed by the second "adoration" by the Cardinals. The Conclave is then opened at the command of the Pope and this is certified by docuмent. Those outside who are accustomed to be admitted are then brought in for the "adoration." The third adoration by the Cardinals is left for a time to be set by the Pope and announced by the Prefect of Apostolic Ceremonies. If the one elected is not a priest or bishop, he is to be ordained or consecrated by the Dean of the Sacred College, who in this case wears the palium. In the absence of the Dean, this privilege belongs to the Subdean; and if he, too, is absent, to the senior Cardinal Suburbicarian Bishop. Finally, the coronation of the new Pope by the first Cardinal Deacon takes place.'" Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis Pius XII, #7, December 8, 1945
I used to hold that only a bishop could be pope but now I realize I was wrong. One can have the office of bishop without orders. 


Offline Romulus

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Re: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2021, 10:05:48 AM »
In the middle ages there were priests and deacons who received the office of Cardinal and thus were able to be elected pope but I do believe they were ordained if they were chosen or else they couldn't hold the title of Bishop of Rome.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2021, 10:18:54 AM »
In the middle ages there were priests and deacons who received the office of Cardinal and thus were able to be elected pope but I do believe they were ordained if they were chosen or else they couldn't hold the title of Bishop of Rome.

This is correct.  In fact, theologians hold that if such a one would refuse to be ordained and consecrated, that would be considered tactic refusal to accept the office.  Yes, theologians considered such a scenario.  Basically, the candidate is more of a pope-elect.  If a bishop were to accept, he'd immediately become pope.  But if a non-bishop were to accept, he would remain in a pope-elect type of state until actually getting consecrated.  To be the pope, you have to be bishop of Rome, so if you refuse to be a bishop, it's the same as refusing the papacy.

Let's just say that I and most theologians disagree with the statement purportedly from Pius XII that such a one would receive the gift of infallibility.  You cannot teach the Church unless you're part of the Ecclesia Docens, and only bishops are part of this "Teaching Church".  On top of that, jursidiction cannot be held by someone who isn't at least a cleric.  So I think Pius XII misfired there.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: My Crazy scenario staring Ladislaus
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2021, 10:36:52 AM »
I used to hold that only a bishop could be pope but now I realize I was wrong. One can have the office of bishop without orders.

You were right the first time.  No layman can teach the Church, and no layman can exercise jurisdiction, with the former requiring a bishop and the latter at least a cleric.