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Author Topic: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White  (Read 9212 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
« Reply #225 on: December 18, 2019, 11:41:25 AM »
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  • Certainly Pope Pius IX and all the bishops were entirely capable of saying the words "novel doctrine which distinguishes it from revelation" if that's what they meant.

    Apart from your incorrect use of the word "novel," that is precisely what they were saying ... if you read the entire sentence and not limit yourself to the first part.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #226 on: December 18, 2019, 11:49:37 AM »
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    If V1 states that should the pope teach new doctrines, the Holy Ghost's protection from error will not be present, then that's plain enough for everyone to understand, so that's what I take it to mean.

    It doesn't actually say that, because it's never happened before, and my opinion is that God would not allow the devil to get this close to the line.  V1 is just explaining the proper use of infallibility and what it's supposed to provide the Church.
    .
    Quote
    In the sense of V1, a new doctrine is in fact heresy because that in the same sentence, V1 says why the divine protection *is* promised, namely, so "that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles".
    V1 is explaining the PURPOSE of infallibility; it is not giving examples of how it cannot be used.
    .
    A "new doctrine" is a contradiction in terms, because "doctrine", by definition, is already infallible.  If you want to say "new ideas" or "new preachings" are heresy, then we agree.


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #227 on: December 18, 2019, 12:43:21 PM »
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  • What I'm saying is that it's an entirely separate issue from this passage in Vatican I.
    But I am saying it cannot be a separate issue. Popes are not always infallibly safe to follow, only Christ Our Lord was, also the Apostles after Pentecost enjoyed the divine protection in everything they taught, which is everything we now have in the deposit of faith.


    Quote
    You: Stubborn:  this means that if the Pope teaches "novel" doctrine, it's not infallible and may be rejected.

    Actual Meaning:  this simply distinguishes papal teaching from Revelation.  When a Pope defines a new doctrine, he's not adding to Revelation but is merely keeping and expounding on that Deposit received from the Apostles.

    Me: Certainly Pope Pius IX and all the bishops were entirely capable of saying the words "novel doctrine which distinguishes it from revelation" if that's what they meant.

    You: Apart from your incorrect use of the word "novel," that is precisely what they were saying ... if you read the entire sentence and not limit yourself to the first part.
    The entire sentence:
    For the holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine,......

    1) The Holy Ghost's protection is not promised for new doctrines - or - you: "novel" doctrines not infallible and may be rejected.

    Not sure why you felt the need to use the word "novel", other then that, we're saying the same thing.


    ......but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles.

    Holy Ghost is promised so that the pope will guard and expound (make known) the deposit of faith - or - you:  "When a Pope defines a new doctrine, he's not adding to Revelation but is merely keeping and expounding on that Deposit received from the Apostles".

    V1 said no divine protection for new doctrines - that is their words and terminology. How can a pope define a new doctrine ex cathedra?

    If you mean "new" as Pax said, then you need to leave that word out because "new doctrines" are heretical doctrines.

    If you mean to say: "When a pope defines a doctrine he's not adding to revelation...", then yes, that statement would be in complete agreement with the dogma.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #228 on: December 18, 2019, 01:03:37 PM »
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  • Quote
    If V1 states that should the pope teach new doctrines, the Holy Ghost's protection from error will not be present, then that's plain enough for everyone to understand, so that's what I take it to mean.
    It doesn't actually say that, because it's never happened before, and my opinion is that God would not allow the devil to get this close to the line.  V1 is just explaining the proper use of infallibility and what it's supposed to provide the Church.
    V1 is explaining the PURPOSE of infallibility; it is not giving examples of how it cannot be used.

    Clearly V1 is defining both when and why - First, when there is no divine protection, and Second, why there is divine protection. Later in the decree, V1 defines when there is divine protection - which is when he defines a doctrine ex cathedra.

    And yes, per Fr. Hesse, it has happened before, I posted this earlier in the thread for LT, it's pretty short, just listen from 19:39 for a few minutes:
    Quote
    The whole talk is well worth hearing, it's almost as if Fr. Hesse was reading this thread, but Fr. Hesse has a few examples for you, start at the 19:39 mark and listen till 28:00.

    https://youtu.be/1FAXaqsVOBg?t=1176


    Quote
    V1 is explaining the PURPOSE of infallibility; it is not giving examples of how it cannot be used.
    .
    A "new doctrine" is a contradiction in terms, because "doctrine", by definition, is already infallible.  If you want to say "new ideas" or "new preachings" are heresy, then we agree.
    Stating when the divine protection is absent, admits, at least implicitly, that situation can happen - and in fact did happen with V2.

    Also "new doctrine" is not a contradiction in terms, we know this because V1 used that exact term.  
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #229 on: December 18, 2019, 01:43:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Can the state prohibit the building of an Islamic temple? [provided that no other prudential considerations are involved, such as rioting by Muslims if you don't allow it ... take those off the table]
    Yes, sure. But the Church often doesn't do it. Take the teaching of Pope St. Gregory the Great: ""For it is necessary to gather those who are at odds with the Christian religion the unity of faith by meekness, by kindness, by admonishing, by persuading, lest these...should be repelled by threats and terrors. They ought, therefore, to come together to hear from you the Word of God in a kindly frame of mind, rather than stricken with dread, result of a harshness that goes beyond due limits." [4]

    Now, the Jews dwelling in Naples have registered a complaint with Us, asserting that certain people are attempting, in an unreasonable fashion, to restrain them from some of the solemnities connected with their own feast days, as it has been lawful for them to observe or celebrate these up to now, and for their forefathers from long ages past...For of what use is this, when...it avails nothing toward their faith and conversion?...One must act, therefore, in such a way that...they might desire to follow us rather than to fly from us...Rather let them enjoy their lawful liberty to observe and to celebrate their festivities, as they have enjoyed this up until now."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I_and_Judaism

    Now, Pope Innocent III gives the explanation of precisely when the Church will do it, example when тαℓмυdic Jєωιѕн blasphemers deliberately insult Jesus or Mary, or come out with contempt for Christian pilgrims on Good Friday etc. There are due limits always. There must be real desire to know the Truth, Who is Christ, and not blaspheme Christ or abuse Christians. Something that someone conscientiously and reasonably believes, which is not against natural law, may temporarily be permitted, till they are converted out of it.

    http://www.тαℓмυdunmasked.com/appendix.htm HOW THE POPE TREATED THE JEWS "Although Christian piety tolerates the Jews . . . whose own fault commits them to perpetual slavery . . . and allows them to continue with us (even though the Moors will not tolerate them), they must not be allowed to remain ungrateful to us in such a way as to repay us with contumely for favors and contempt for our familiarity. They are admitted to our familiarity only through our mercy;"

    Finally, what do you make of the teaching of Pope Pius XII mentioned earlier? The Pope said that, in the current circuмstances, prudence suggests toleration is the better policy, and God did not communicate the right to repress other religions, for a greater good. 

    In dealing with what the Pope called the "question of fact" today, in the concrete case, I personally would distinguish between Universal Natural Law. Generically Christian Law (this becomes necessary after Protestantism) and Specifically Catholic Law. Christians should always try to make the law Christian, by evangelism etc. In a country like e.g. Catholic Brazil, one ought to limit the proselytism of Protestants, since we don't need to hear blasphemies against Our Lady or the Eucharist in a Catholic country. Nevertheless, in a predominantly Protestant or secularist country like America, where neither Catholics or Evangelicals have an absolute majority individually, but together may have it, then it may be reasonable first to promote general Christian principles (Christ's Divinity, Holy Trinity, Holy Bible in public etc) to such an extent that Christians form a majority first and ensure the culture remains Christian. After that, Catholics must make the effort to evangelize evangelicals to the Catholic Faith, and after that work to make America Catholic. 

    This has precedent going back centuries, e.g. Lord Baltimore's toleration of Protestants (which was not reciprocated): ""Catholics . . . were the first in America to proclaim and to practice civil and religious liberty ... The colony established by Lord Baltimore in Maryland granted civil and religious liberty to all who professed different beliefs . . . At that very time the Puritans of New England and the Episcopalians of Virginia were busily engaged in persecuting their brother Protestants for consciences' sakes and the former were . . . hanging `witches'." (50:300-01) ... "Baltimore . . . welcomed, among other English people, even the Catholic-hating Puritans (8) . . . In January of 1691 . . . the new regime brought hard times for Catholics as the Protestants closed their church, forbade them to teach in public . . . but . . . the little outpost of practical Catholic tolerance had left its mark of promise on the land." (9) http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htm

    The State should be confessionally Catholic, of course, ideally professing the Catholic religion; if not possible, then at least a general Christianity, Christ's Divinity and the Trinity etc. But some degree of religious liberty, temporarily, can be granted, but the mission to evangelize and infuse the Catholic spirit into the nation's laws, as implied in the Catechism, must go on. Also, the fact that e.g. Protestants used to persecute Catholics on false pretexts that the Church was totally opposed to legitimate liberty (freedom to live virtuously and truly) must also be taken into account. Why did Baltimore do this 200 years ago? Mainly for that reason.


    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #230 on: December 18, 2019, 01:47:48 PM »
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  • Vatican I is the best refutation of neo-Gallican R&R absurdities (The Council was literally a supreme triumph of "ultramontanism" over Gallicanism" that there is. Just 3 random brief excerpts. I encourage everyone interested in understanding the Church's Magisterium's mind on the subject to read the whole Council: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/first-vatican-council-1505

    I. 2. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world. 3. In this way, by unity with the Roman Pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the Church of Christ becomes one flock under one Supreme Shepherd. 4. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation. [50]."

    II. The sentence of the Apostolic See (than which there is no higher authority) is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon [54]. And so they stray from the genuine path of truth who maintain that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to an ecuмenical council as if this were an authority superior to the Roman Pontiff.

    3. "in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren [60].7. This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine. Thus the tendency to schism is removed and the whole Church is preserved in unity, and, resting on its foundation, can stand firm against the gates of hell."

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #231 on: December 18, 2019, 02:35:09 PM »
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  • More clear passages: "3. To satisfy this pastoral office, our predecessors strove unwearyingly that the saving teaching of Christ should be spread among all the peoples of the world; and with equal care they made sure that it should be kept pure and uncontaminated wherever it was received.
    4. It was for this reason that the bishops of the whole world, sometimes individually, sometimes gathered in synods, according to the long established custom of the Churches and the pattern of ancient usage referred to this Apostolic See those dangers especially which arose in matters concerning the faith. This was to ensure that any damage suffered by the faith should be repaired in that place above all where the faith can know no failing [59].
    5. The Roman pontiffs, too, as the circuмstances of the time or the state of affairs suggested, sometimes by summoning ecuмenical councils or consulting the opinion of the Churches scattered throughout the world, sometimes by special synods, sometimes by taking advantage of other useful means afforded by divine providence, defined as doctrines to be held those things which, by God's help, they knew to be in keeping with Sacred Scripture and the Apostolic Traditions."

    The Church is to be a constant, perpetual, living, visible motive of credibility for the whole world, She is that "city set on a hill that cannot be hid", She is Universal and cannot be reduced to a few vagrant clerics here and there who don't work with each other. All this is clearly implied in Vatican I's teaching on the Church as "great and perpetual motive of credibility": "9. Since, then, without faith it is impossible to please God [21] and reach the fellowship of his sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end. 10. So that we could fulfill our duty of embracing the true faith and of persevering unwaveringly in it, God, through his only begotten Son, founded the Church, and he endowed his institution with clear notes to the end that she might be recognized by all as the guardian and teacher of the revealed word.

    11. To the Catholic Church alone belong all those things, so many and so marvelous, which have been divinely ordained to make for the manifest credibility of the Christian faith. 12. What is more, the Church herself by reason of her astonishing propagation, her outstanding holiness and her inexhaustible fertility in every kind of goodness, by her Catholic unity and her unconquerable stability, is a kind of great and perpetual motive of credibility and an incontrovertible evidence of her own divine mission. 13. So it comes about that, like a standard lifted up for the nations [22], she both invites to herself those who have not yet believed, and likewise assures her sons and daughters that the faith they profess rests on the firmest of foundations."


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #232 on: December 18, 2019, 02:36:40 PM »
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  • Xavier, you rant and rave against Sede-ism and now you're ranting against "R&R".  This makes no sense, except then I remembered that you're a fake-trad who accepts V2 and the new mass wholeheartedly.  There's really no reason for you to be on this site, which was founded on the very principles you, and your friends in new-rome, reject.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #233 on: December 18, 2019, 03:12:05 PM »
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  • Xavier, you rant and rave against Sede-ism and now you're ranting against "R&R".  This makes no sense, except then I remembered that you're a fake-trad who accepts V2 and the new mass wholeheartedly.  There's really no reason for you to be on this site, which was founded on the very principles you, and your friends in new-rome, reject.

    It's not inconsistent though.  Xavier holds the same theological principles regarding the papacy as the sedevacantists, against R&R, and so the only way to uphold their legitimacy is to assert that V2 and the New Mass weren't all that bad.  Now, what generally defines a Traditional Catholic is their recognition of the fact that V2 and the New Mass ARE in fact "that bad".  I have called Xavier out, then, for not being a true Traditional Catholic.  But, given his theology, I see no reason that he isn't with the FSSP instead, who are in full communion with the hierarchy (unlike the SSPX who remain irregular).  When I questioned him about it, it has to do with the scale of their apostolate and their organization ... as well as some reference to +Lefebvre in an exorcism.  Those reasons do not rise to the level of justifying being out of full communion with Rome, and so I called him out as a schismatic.  You have to have MUCH GRAVER reasons than these to opt for the SSPX over the FSSP.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #234 on: December 18, 2019, 05:45:30 PM »
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  • Maybe your conscience pricks you, Pax Vobis, for being out of communion with the Catholic Church, and for acting as if there is no way you can commit the sin of schism today, that you react so maliciously. If you want to be out of communion with the Pope and the Bishops, I weep for your soul. I know before God I'm a Traditional Catholic, and I have no need to prove anything to you. I want to avoid heresy, schism, vice, sin, become a saint, serve the Church, and save my soul. That's it. 

    Not long ago, this forum said: "A forum for SSPX and other Traditional Catholics to discuss matters pertaining to the Catholic Faith". That was when I first signed up.

    SVism and R&R being the only two traditional possibilities is your false dichotomy, not mine. I don't have to answer that, and I've already explained before that there is a third alternative RPWR: Recognize, Pray, Work and Restore. It's neither sede-ism nor R&R, but +ABL said this, "We wish to remain attached to Rome and to the Successor of Peter, while refusing his Liberalism through fidelity to his predecessors. We are not afraid to speak to him, respectfully but firmly, as did St. Paul with St. Peter. And so, far from refusing to pray for the Pope, we redouble our prayers and supplications that the Holy Ghost will grant him light and strength in his affirmations and defense of the Faith. Thus, I have never refused to go to Rome at his request or that of his representatives. The Truth must be affirmed at Rome above all other places. It is of God, and He will assure its ultimate triumph." Recognize, Pray, Work, Restore, they all appear, and those are the 4 pillars of Authentic Traditional Restoration. https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_two/Chapter_40.htm It's because you don't do this that you opposed Bp. Fellay. Whereas everyone who thinks like a Catholic sees that Bp. Fellay is perfectly just in obtaining Ordinary Jurisdiction for the Three Society Bishops. 

    Quote
    unlike the SSPX who remain irregular

    This is your unproved opinion, Ladislaus; the Pope has called them Catholics, and that alone is sufficient to refute your opinion. But further, as Bp. Fellay has explained, and I've proven to you before, the Pope has granted them ordinary jurisdiction, extending their faculties beyond the Year of Mercy. Now, it is impossible to have ordinary jurisdiction, and be irregular. I don't have to go into your other non-sequiturs in your post, because you neither understand what schism is (hint, belonging to an objectively Catholic society isn't it), nor, plainly, have you experienced for a long time, the blessing of what it is and what it means, to enjoy the benefits of Catholic Communion with the Universal Church: "We are very grateful to our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI for issuing, last July, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм which called us to come into undisputed and peaceful Communion with him.

    Now we have that undisputed communion! It is a pearl of great price; a treasure hidden in the field; a sweetness that cannot be imagined by those who have not tasted it or who have not known it, now for many years. Its value cannot be fully expressed in earthly language and therefore we hope that all traditional priests who have not yet done so, will answer Pope Benedict's call to enjoy the grace of peaceful and undisputed communion with him. Believe us, the price to pay is nothing; even all the angry voices that have shouted against us and calumniated us are as nothing when weighed in the scales against undisputed communion with the Vicar of Christ; others have died for it; what are raucous voices?" https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/07/transalpine-redemptorists-regularized.html

    If I thought the SSPX was non-Catholic, I would NEVER join them. Some of you are so partisan that you cannot see that the Fraternity of St. Peter has done so much good for the Church that anyone who truly loves the Church will appreciate. And the SSPX has also done even more good that very many "on the other side" also appreciate: 

    All I can tell some of you is that, at least Summorum Pontificuм, views like yours are increasingly rare. One of the moderators at OnePeterFive, who is an FSSP Parishioner, is very pro-SSPX. And very many Traditional Catholics are like that, whether you know it or not, whether you believe it or not. And they are right, and Bishop Fellay who said, "I rejoice whenever a Traditional Mass is celebrated" is exactly right in that Catholic mindset, that has only the good of the Church at heart. 

    I reject the absurd idea that the SSPX is not Catholic, or that belonging to a Catholic society is schismatic, or any other such "sede-doubtist" subjective nonsense. I believe Bishop Fellay is a perfect Traditional Catholic. So why precisely should I refuse communion with him or refuse to belong to the Fraternity he belongs to?

    I also reject the general attitude that to belong to the SSPX I must hate the FSSP, or vice versa. If I chose the FSSP, I'm not obliged to hate or refuse communion with the SSPX, since both Fraternities are Catholic. That in fact is a schismatic attitude; schism is a sin against Catholic Charity. You can commit schism in two ways, per St. Thomas. Refusing subjection to the Vicar of Christ. Which some of you do, instead of at least taking the safer position of not refusing subjection by being in communion. Or, by refusing communion with the members of the Church subject to the Pope, which some of you also do. Tread carefully. No one can cause you to be in schism, just like any other sin, if you don't want to. No one can also cause you not to be in schism if you want to remain there. It's a free will choice. 

    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #235 on: December 18, 2019, 06:12:29 PM »
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  • XavierSem:

    Quote
    It's neither sede-ism nor R&R, but +ABL said this, "We wish to remain attached to Rome and to the Successor of Peter, while refusing his Liberalism through fidelity to his predecessors.

    Hello. The above underlined is classic Recognize and Resist.

    You are blind.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #236 on: December 18, 2019, 06:32:56 PM »
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  • One is either schismatic or not.  Quo Primum and canon law allow Trads to do what we do, nay, they command it.  Thus, schism has no part in the discussion.
    .
    “Full communion” and it’s various “degrees” are made-up, novel terms that the V2 heretics had to invent to explain (to novus ordo Catholics such as yourself) how Catholics loyal to the Faith (ie Trads) could ignore Modernistic heresies.  V2 officials aren’t going to come out and say “Well, Trads are within their rights of law, morality and history to continue with the Latin mass, because the new mass is illegal and not obligatory.”  But this is the truth.  

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #237 on: December 19, 2019, 07:26:09 AM »
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  • A "new doctrine" is a contradiction in terms, because "doctrine", by definition, is already infallible.  If you want to say "new ideas" or "new preachings" are heresy, then we agree.
    Also "new doctrine" is not a contradiction in terms, we know this because V1 used that exact term.
    I want to add that you are correct in saying that doctrines are already infallible, but a doctrine is simply a belief which has always been held within, and taught by the Church. That is what a doctrine is, as such yes, doctrines are already infallible.

    Divine protection is promised when the pope defines a doctrine ex cathedra, that is, a doctrine becomes a dogma after the pope defines a belief ex cathedra. This is the extent of papal infallibility and is what we are bound to believe, per V1.

    The "new doctrine" referred to in V1, are doctrines of man, which is what you are correctly saying is a contradiction because never being held or taught by the Church, they are not true doctrines of the Church. Doctrines of man *always* contain error and are often blatantly heretical and blasphemous.

    Here are some examples of "new doctrines" from V2, as supplied by the conciliar bishops.

    Lad's belief of what V1 means by "new doctrine" is a belief which is absolutely essential to maintain both the whole sede confusion, and the whole NO pied piper scenario.  


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #238 on: December 19, 2019, 08:46:00 AM »
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  • This is your unproved opinion, Ladislaus; the Pope has called them Catholics, ...

    NOTE, I did not say that the SSPX are not considered to be Catholics, just that they are canonically irregular.  When your theology is no different than that of the FSSP, you have no justification whatsoever for going with an irregular group over the regular FSSP.  Consequently, you are a schismatic.  If I believed as you did, then I would not go anywhere near the SSPX until they were fully regularized.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Must Obey Pope Even if He Says Black is White
    « Reply #239 on: December 19, 2019, 09:37:18 AM »
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  • The "new doctrine" referred to in V1, are doctrines of man ...

    After all this time, you persist in clinging to this false interpretation of Vatican I's "new doctrine" passage.  Well, one cannot say that you did not choose your forum screen name appropriately.