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Author Topic: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's  (Read 5845 times)

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Offline Tallinn Trad

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Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2021, 04:50:38 PM »
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  • Do you really think Sister Lucy being a fake made any significant difference? 

    What percentage of Catholics were even aware of her endorsement or cared about it?  Less than 1 percent. 

    The only endorsement I noticed was when she grabbed the hands of John Paul II in a most undignified way when he was distributing communion.

    Vatican II was accepted because it let Catholics off the hook for the sins they wanted to commit. 90 percent of Catholics contracept.  1 percent care about Fatima. Far less than 1 percent would know much about Sister Lucia's relationship with the Vatican in 1960 and beyond.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #31 on: January 31, 2021, 08:33:33 PM »
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  • You failed to address the other point.  The imposter also has family and other nuns, still with faith, who know her.

    Suddenly they pick up a Catholic newspaper in Portugal in the 1960s to 1980s and recognise someone they were in another convent with who is being put forward as the most famous nun in Portugal.  Surely they would notice, suspect and go to the press.

    How did they stop the imposter nun's family visiting her?  Or did they get an orphan, apostate nun who wanted to play make believe for 45 years?

    It is a hugely complex and risky operation.  What did it gain compared to simply bumping Sister Lucia off and not replacing her.  The stooge accomplished very little.
    .
    Oh, okay, I think I misunderstood what you meant when you asked this question the first time around. That's an interesting question. Maybe the imposter had been in the convent so long that her family would have a hard time recognizing her, since the last time they saw her was when she was a child or young adult. And nuns' habits cover most of the head, making nuns in general particularly difficult to identify. I could see them saying, "Gee, doesn't Sr. Lucy bear a weird resemblance to [imposter's name]?" And if someone went around saying, "Sr. Lucy looks just like my aunt who entered a convent 40 years ago when I was a kid!" how much attention would they get? People would either laugh it off or maybe think the person was a little off in the head, like someone going around bragging about how he looks exactly like some Hollywood star. People don't take that sort of thing very seriously.
    .

    Quote
    It is a hugely complex and risky operation.  What did it gain compared to simply bumping Sister Lucia off and not replacing her.  The stooge accomplished very little.

    .
    Oh, my friend, it accomplished a lot. Really a lot. This was one of the most successful psyops in the whole Vatican 2 non-religion. There is no need for modernists or heretics to deceive the 90+% that you mentioned have already lost both their faith and their morals. Those people are in the bag. But there was a good section of the Vatican 2 followers in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. that had grown up before V2 and knew something was wrong in the Church. These people had kept the faith and good morals, and didn't like what the "Church" was doing, but didn't know what to think. Those people (and a lot of those types are still around today) are the primary target of modernist heretics, the stereotypical "little old ladies who pray the rosary all day long". Those are the ones the devil will pull out all the stops to attack. Those people are the ones who would pay attention to and actually care about Our Lady, especially the most recent apparition of hers in Fatima. So getting someone to claim to be one of the seers of Fatima, who also openly attends the New Mass and thinks John Paul 2 was a great, holy pope, would have a powerful effect of keeping these pious people in the Novus Ordo church and away from traditionalist organizations that they are told are "not with the pope", including R&R groups like the SSPX. These people just say, "But Sr. Lucy saw Our Lady and she went to the New Mass, so it must be okay. And she loved Pope John Paul II, so he must be a good pope. Our Lady promised Sr. Lucy she would go to heaven, so you can't tell me it's a mortal sin to attend the New Mass if Sr. Lucy does so."
    .
    Whatever you think about whether there was an imposter or not, Sr. Lucy (real or fake) kept a huge number of devout people in the clutches of the New Church who would otherwise have gone trad.


    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #32 on: February 01, 2021, 01:28:25 AM »
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  • I think Sister Lucia was wrong.  As evidenced by the fact that some of the things she said being completely wrong.  There's nothing faithful about Portugal.  It is an apostate nation with Euthanasia just legalised as well as Sodomite marriage, abortion and the lowest birthrate in the world. 

    You don't need a second Sister Lucia.  The original one was simply dragged along with modernism like 99 percent of priests, bishops and Cardinals. 

    I have never met a single novus ordo Catholic using Fatima as a major excuse for not becoming a Traditionalist.  And I have been in Traditionalist circles for over 4 decades and in plenty of debates between Novus Ordo and Traditionalists. 

    They use obedience, infallibility of councils, Lefebvre LS excommunication, that Trads are uncharitable, schismatic spirit and a few other arguments, but I have never once had Fatima weaponised. 

    I have only ever seen Fatima brought up as argument against sedevacantism by other Traditionalists. 

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #33 on: February 01, 2021, 10:26:11 AM »
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  • Yeti - Direct evidence from her own blood sister Caroline who recognised her sister Lucia when visiting her in the convent.



    9 minutes into the video Fr. Gruner mentions it.  He spoke to the sister called Caroline.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #34 on: February 01, 2021, 02:44:08 PM »
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  • Wow, red flag!   Thanks for finding this!

    This is more ammunition against John Vennari and Fr. Gruner, for "spinning" Sr. Lucy II evidence.

    Vennari says the photo comparisons don't matter.  Oh really.   (We're such stupid goys!  Why do we trust our own eyes?)

    Fr. Gruner says her blood sister acknowledged that the post 1960 Lucy was the real one.

    In the summer of 2009, a friend attending St. Mary's ordinations heard, from Fr. Gruner's mouth that he didn't want to discuss the "Two Sr. Lucy's theory" because it would alienate his Novus ordo benefactors.   (Yeah, we have to protect the Fatima Center's cash flow).

    Vennari and Gruner used their mєdια influence like Bishops, to keep the lid on the trad cօռspιʀαcιҽs.

    I read in Catholic Family News (which Fr. Gruner owned), where John Vennari pronounced that the "Siri theory" was bogus.

    Do you see what's happened here?  We were misled by the pseudo-trads.

    Now, the SSPX controls Catholic Family News and the Fatima Center.  

    They are using these mєdια forums to advance the neo-SSPX masonic agenda.  

    Such as, let's all go get ναccιnαted, cause the SSPX said it's okay.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #35 on: February 01, 2021, 03:20:41 PM »
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  • Here is the page from the convent records   See entry # 265  Just click on it to enlarge.


    Do click it on, the entire page!  Everyone has failed to notice the obvious.  The sisters are listed chronologically by date of death, all except for #265!  Whoever changed the record isn’t even subtle!  
    Someone passed on that date in 2005, most likely the fake Sr. Lucy!  
    Now if we could see the convent records for 1946-1960 or so...

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #36 on: February 01, 2021, 03:43:31 PM »
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  • Do click it on, the entire page!  Everyone has failed to notice the obvious.  The sisters are listed chronologically by date of death, all except for #265!  Whoever changed the record isn’t even subtle!  
    Someone passed on that date in 2005, most likely the fake Sr. Lucy!  
    Now if we could see the convent records for 1946-1960 or so...
    .
    Yes, I noticed that too. It's very weird. I wish Chojnowski had addressed this instead of just dismissing the whole thing out of hand. Maybe he thinks the picture is fake, which I kind of wonder too.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #37 on: February 01, 2021, 04:46:36 PM »
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  •   Everyone has failed to notice the obvious.  The sisters are listed chronologically by date of death, all except for #265!  
    No one failed to notice the obvious that read my original post which you deleted when quoting.
    I specifically pointed that out.
     "Notice that she is listed with others in the year 2005.  Did someone really want the truth known?
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #38 on: February 01, 2021, 04:53:42 PM »
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  • No one failed to notice the obvious that read my original post which you deleted when quoting.
    I specifically pointed that out.
     "Notice that she is listed with others in the year 2005.  Did someone really want the truth known?
    Oops!  Sorry!  I’m guilty of not reading carefully.  

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #39 on: February 02, 2021, 07:33:18 AM »
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  • I think Sister Lucia was wrong.  As evidenced by the fact that some of the things she said being completely wrong.  There's nothing faithful about Portugal.  It is an apostate nation with Euthanasia just legalised as well as sơdơmite marriage, abortion and the lowest birthrate in the world.

    You don't need a second Sister Lucia.  The original one was simply dragged along with modernism like 99 percent of priests, bishops and Cardinals.

    I have never met a single novus ordo Catholic using Fatima as a major excuse for not becoming a Traditionalist.  And I have been in Traditionalist circles for over 4 decades and in plenty of debates between Novus Ordo and Traditionalists.

    They use obedience, infallibility of councils, Lefebvre LS excommunication, that Trads are uncharitable, schismatic spirit and a few other arguments, but I have never once had Fatima weaponised.

    I have only ever seen Fatima brought up as argument against sedevacantism by other Traditionalists.
    I still wonder about the whole impostor theory.  This post makes a lot of sense though, and the bolded is especially spot-on.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #40 on: February 02, 2021, 11:56:53 AM »
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  • I think Sister Lucia was wrong.  As evidenced by the fact that some of the things she said being completely wrong.  There's nothing faithful about Portugal.  It is an apostate nation with Euthanasia just legalised as well as sơdơmite marriage, abortion and the lowest birthrate in the world.

    I disagree.  That phrase is followed by an ellipsis, and we have no idea what follows.  Also, the term "sempre" (always) in Portuguese, and many of the Romance languages, doesn't necessarily mean an absolute "always" ... as in until the end of time ... but more like "continually".  So the phrase "will always be preserved" could easily be translated as "will continue to be preserved" ... [UNTIL] and then the Third Secret.  So, the dogma of the faith will continue to be preserved ... until Vatican II.  It's the opposite of how the Prots always interpret the Scriptures to deny the perpetual virginity of Our Lady where it says that she did not know man UNTIL she gave birth to her son.  In that case, there's no implied "but then she did later".  So different languages have different nuances with regard to continuity and sequence.

    Now, here, you're not just saying that Sister Lucia was wrong, but that the Fatima apparitions are not genuine, because these are words alleged to have been said by Our Lady, not the thoughts of Sister Lucia.  If the apparitions were genuine, then I'm sure God's providence would prevent Our Lady from being misquoted by the visionary.  So, if Sister Lucia were "wrong," you're effectively saying that the apparitions are not genuine.  And there's a pretty significant weight of Church approbation to the contrary.  Of course, said approbation doesn't make this an article of faith or some required point of doctrine.


    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #41 on: February 02, 2021, 12:30:54 PM »
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  • Then why use the word always? 

    Why give the world the misleading first part of a conditional prophecy that Heaven knows will not pan out? 

    That is indistinguishable from a false prophecy. 

    All Heaven needs to do is avoid mentioning Portugal altogether.  Or include the word if or unless.  Then there would be no room for doubt.

    We are told to test prophecy but how is that possible if some is held back which entirely changes the meaning?  Any false prophecy could be true if we add a fanciful unless blah blah blah to it.

    Germany will win World War 2, unless...

    The world will end on December 21, 2012, unless.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #42 on: February 02, 2021, 12:56:02 PM »
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  • I didn't think Church approval of a private revelation/apparition meant it was free from error.

    Offline clement21

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #43 on: February 02, 2021, 02:39:02 PM »
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  • God is not the Author of confusion to His children. God is clear and open to His children. No secrets, no confusion, nothing esoteric that causes misunderstanding in His children. Only the wicked and pagans are bewildered and confounded by God's word.

    The whole "secrets" thing of Fatima makes the account dubious. The confusion of "Portugal the dogma of the faith will be preserved ..." makes it more dubious. Adding the "Fatima prayer" is a novelty because why wouldn't God already include it into the Rosary from day one, if it was so necessary? This makes Fatima even more dubious.

    Tell me, where does St. John the Revelator mention that Russia needs to be consecrated? Catholics act like the salvation of the world and world peace hinges on Russia being consecrated. If that is true, why isn't it mentioned in the last Book of the Bible? 

    Now, the argument can be made that the last Book is "confusing" and "esoteric" but it's not. It's written that way because it was the only language in St. John's day that could be used to describe the future (which is now) modern world and events, and understanding of the text would be be made manifest to God's children as they approach those days.   

    Offline clement21

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #44 on: February 02, 2021, 03:10:31 PM »
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  • Fatima is another excuse for Catholics to do nothing but still think they're doing something. It's used as a psyop on Catholics. They think taking action is fruitless; their actions won't matter because they think everything hinges on Russia being consecrated.