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Author Topic: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's  (Read 10146 times)

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Online Incredulous

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Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2021, 10:25:53 AM »
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  • This subject was covered extensively in 2014.  
    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sister-lucy-attended-the-novus-ordo-mass-for-decades/60/

    In that thread I posted the page from the convent records (which has been removed from the net) that shows sister Lucy died on May 31, 1949.  It also gives her birth date, date she professed her vows etc

    Notice that she is listed with others in the year 2005.  Did someone really want the truth known?
    .

    Here is the page from the convent records   See entry # 265  Just click on it to enlarge.



    I believe TIA broke this story and found the convent’s death records around 2006?

    The online convent records suggested the real Sr. Lucy died in 1949 and was buried in their cemetery.

    After TIA broke this story, the convent was “spooked” and cleansed their files.  

    I think this is the case?

    Apparently, no one investigated the cemetery to check headstones or to ask for some accountability?

    The Dimonds claim Sr. Lucy was murdered by Masons.  This was input they received from the family member of high level European masons (Northern Star).

    It would seem the search for Sr. Lucy’s body should start at the convent.

    Also, it should be possible to do a DNA match on the real Sr. Lucy, from any hair or other artifacts from her family & relatives.

    This would prove Sr. Lucy II was
    fake.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #16 on: January 27, 2021, 10:48:53 AM »
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  • The online convent records suggested the real Sr. Lucy died in 1949 and was buried in their cemetery.

    Seventy years on...

    Means nothing, but my take is that it is a given she died before 1960, just to pick an important date because of instructions related to public revelation of the message/s, etc.

    Then there is the photographic issue, wherein anyone with an ounce of sense, can see the woman brought forth as Lucy was not the same as before.  God gave her an unmistakable, donkey-like jaw for a reason.  The Fake wasn't even close.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #17 on: January 27, 2021, 11:27:00 AM »
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  • As we get closer to the Truth. The idea that Sister Lucy of Fatima died in 1949 on account of "death announcement" by the Carmelites, is clearly false. The notice says that "Maria Lucia of the Immaculate Heart" was Professed on October 3, 1928. The real Sister Lucy was CERTAINLY not professed in the Carmelites then, but 20 years later. Whoever the nun was who died in 1949, it wasn't SISTER LUCY, SEER OF FATIMA. That was easy. And No Fees!







    Source
    Dr. Chojnowski put your exact quote on his blog:
    As we get closer to the Truth. The idea that Sister Lucy of Fatima died in 1949 on account of "death announcement" by the Carmelites, is clearly false. The notice says that "Maria Lucia of the Immaculate Heart" was Professed on October 3, 1928. The real Sister Lucy was CERTAINLY not professed in the Carmelites then, but 20 years later. Whoever the nun was who died in 1949, it wasn't SISTER LUCY, SEER OF FATIMA. That was easy. And No Fees! (chojnowski.me)


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 12:17:52 PM »
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  • Donkath actually put Dr. Chojnowski’s blog as his source.
    Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was confused as Dr. Chojnowski put CathInfo as the source, but maybe he intended to lead his readers to CathInfo to view the discussion.


    Online Incredulous

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #20 on: January 27, 2021, 12:27:40 PM »
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  • Seventy years on...

    Means nothing, but my take is that it is a given she died before 1960, just to pick an important date because of instructions related to public revelation of the message/s, etc.

    Then there is the photographic issue, wherein anyone with an ounce of sense, can see the woman brought forth as Lucy was not the same as before.  God gave her an unmistakable, donkey-like jaw for a reason.  The Fake wasn't even close.

    Yes, I didn’t mean to imply 1949 was a real date, but a decoy date.

    1959 sounds about right.

    But, is there a body in the Carmelite cemetery plot that claims to be Sr. Lucia?

    A Carmelite cemetery inventory check may reveal the missing Sister.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline donkath

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #21 on: January 27, 2021, 05:53:51 PM »
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  • Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was confused as Dr. Chojnowski put CathInfo as the source, but maybe he intended to lead his readers to CathInfo to view the discussion.


    Yes, I believe that was DC's intention.
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #22 on: January 27, 2021, 07:56:17 PM »
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  • As we get closer to the Truth. The idea that Sister Lucy of Fatima died in 1949 on account of "death announcement" by the Carmelites, is clearly false. The notice says that "Maria Lucia of the Immaculate Heart" was Professed on October 3, 1928. The real Sister Lucy was CERTAINLY not professed in the Carmelites then, but 20 years later. Whoever the nun was who died in 1949, it wasn't SISTER LUCY, SEER OF FATIMA. That was easy. And No Fee
    How many times can you profess vows?  If she professed in 1928 with the Sisters of St. Dorothy what happens to those vows when she joins the Carmelites 20 years later?
    If she was ordered to change convents could not the Carmelites have been told to accept the vows she'd already professed?
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Yeti

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #23 on: January 28, 2021, 07:52:52 AM »
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  • How many times can you profess vows?  If she professed in 1928 with the Sisters of St. Dorothy what happens to those vows when she joins the Carmelites 20 years later?
    If she was ordered to change convents could not the Carmelites have been told to accept the vows she'd already professed?
    .
    Yes, I'm wondering the same thing. Is it possible the date of her profession refers to her first profession with her first convent? In any case, I wish we had gotten a little more explanation from Sr. Lucy Truth, such as whether he thinks the image is simply fake, or the website was hacked, or someone nun played a prank on her order, or whatever.

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #24 on: January 29, 2021, 01:24:48 PM »
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  • How did the imposter convince her visiting relatives she was their sister, aunt?  The name of the house next door, her first pet, the old lady who used to chased them away, what her father used to whistle and other past memories?  Any suspicion from those relatives and it would be incredibly easy to catch the imposter out and impossible for the imposter to protect against.  "Remember Sergio our neighbour, he died, please pray for him".  The neighbour's name was Noel. A huge risk.  The relatives would tell other relatives and word would get out. 

    What about the sisters who spent 30 years with the real sister Lucia in the convent?  Surely at some point they would bump into the fake Lucia.  If you think the difference is that obvious, from several pictures, then surely they would have known from two people in the flesh in 3D and colour. 

    What is in it for the actress?  Nuns are in convents living lives shut away from the world for their eternal salvation.  The actress would know she was perpetrating a fraud.  Why would she be motivated to commit her entire adult life to that?  What about her parents, sisters, brother, friends?  She effectively had to cut off all her past forever.  Who would do that and for what reward? 

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #25 on: January 29, 2021, 09:22:02 PM »
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  • .
    These are excellent questions that someone who knows more about her life could probably answer better than I can, but to give you a few broad strokes ...
    .

    Quote
    How did the imposter convince her visiting relatives she was their sister, aunt?  The name of the house next door, her first pet, the old lady who used to chased them away, what her father used to whistle and other past memories?  Any suspicion from those relatives and it would be incredibly easy to catch the imposter out and impossible for the imposter to protect against.  "Remember Sergio our neighbour, he died, please pray for him".  The neighbour's name was Noel. A huge risk.  The relatives would tell other relatives and word would get out.

    .
    Sure, her relatives could have figured out that she was an imposter in about 30 seconds flat if:
    1) They had wanted to go visit her, and
    2) They had been given permission to visit her, and also
    3) They had done a test like what you described to see if it was really her.
    .
    I think each of those conditions is unlikely. My impression is that Sr. Lucy was kept for most of her life in a strange sort of incommunicado. No one, to my understanding was allowed to visit her, probably including her own family. That only confirms suspicions about this. Even if her family had visited her, unless they suspected some fraud, they would not have asked her such questions.
    .

    Quote
    What about the sisters who spent 30 years with the real sister Lucia in the convent?  Surely at some point they would bump into the fake Lucia.  If you think the difference is that obvious, from several pictures, then surely they would have known from two people in the flesh in 3D and colour.
    .
    I think this is why the blogger quoted earlier posited that the switch was made when Sr. Lucy was transferred to a different convent. That would eliminate the need to have someone new show up in a convent claiming to be Sr. Lucy, which the other nuns would know was not the case. In any case, we really don't know under what conditions Sr. Lucy lived in that convent. She could have been confined to her room, so that the other nuns may not have known her all that well. Or, if some of the nuns said they thought Sr. Lucy had been replaced with someone else, they could have been told they were crazy and also told to not talk about their ideas. Nuns spend their whole lives in an atmosphere of humility and obedience, and if a nun were told something like that, I can easily see her just keeping her mouth shut and trusting her superiors.
    .

    Quote
    What is in it for the actress?  Nuns are in convents living lives shut away from the world for their eternal salvation.  The actress would know she was perpetrating a fɾαυd.  Why would she be motivated to commit her entire adult life to that?  What about her parents, sisters, brother, friends?  She effectively had to cut off all her past forever.  Who would do that and for what reward?

    .
    My personal suspicion is that they got some nun who had lost her faith or her morals or both to agree to impersonate Sr. Lucy. I agree that convincing a person from the world to become a nun to pretend to be Sr. Lucy would never have worked. They could easily have found some nun who had become a modernist or lost her faith, but who wanted to continue living in the convent because she had no real way to make a living in the world, and decided to hang on to the security and stability of convent life, but without any supernatural spirit behind it. How would they convince such a person to play the role? How about bribing her with photographs taken with John Paul 2? How about all the glory and honor the world would have given her as a supposed seer of Our Lady? All the photo opportunities she would have had with famous people? That by itself would be enough to convince someone who wasn't giving up a whole lot to begin with, but they could easily have given her a more comfortable room in the convent, better food, fiction novels if she wanted them, and numerous other things.
    .
    I think it's important to remember in all of this that of all people in the world Carmelite nuns are the most likely to give people the benefit of the doubt, to obey superiors, to assume the best, to mind their own business even if something really looks "off" to them, to keep their mouth shut if told, and to just let things alone if they don't know what else to do. What motive would any of them have to raise some sort of alarm about a fake Sr. Lucy if their own priest (probably) had gaslighted them when they told him they thought Sr. Lucy was different or gone?
    .
    There are few environments more controlled than a Carmelite convent of nuns, and few environments in which it would be easier to pull of something like this.


    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #26 on: January 31, 2021, 12:10:35 PM »
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  • I have a very clear memory of Frs. Gruner, Kramer and others mentioning her relatives visiting her.  They were allowed to visit her and they did visit her.  That they were restricted was never mentioned in any talk or publication before the 2 sister Lucy theory arose.

    If you have a famous seer aunt, great aunt, sister, you are certainly going to make an effort to see her every 1 or 2 years. If they had been refused back then it would have raised suspicions.  They were not refused.  They certainly met her and I remember Gruner and Kramer mentioning it back in the 1980s and 1990s.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #27 on: January 31, 2021, 01:10:49 PM »
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  •  Was Sister Lucy of Fatima replaced with an Impostor around 1960? Over 20,000 Hits! Our Message Getting Out.


    - January 29, 2021





    http://radtradthomist.chojnowski.me/2021/01/was-sister-lucy-of-fatima-replaced-with.html

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #28 on: January 31, 2021, 02:35:39 PM »
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  • You failed to address the other point.  The imposter also has family and other nuns, still with faith, who know her. 

    Suddenly they pick up a Catholic newspaper in Portugal in the 1960s to 1980s and recognise someone they were in another convent with who is being put forward as the most famous nun in Portugal.  Surely they would notice, suspect and go to the press. 

    How did they stop the imposter nun's family visiting her?  Or did they get an orphan, apostate nun who wanted to play make believe for 45 years?

    It is a hugely complex and risky operation.  What did it gain compared to simply bumping Sister Lucia off and not replacing her.  The stooge accomplished very little. 

    Online Incredulous

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    Re: More Evidence on the two Sister Lucy's
    « Reply #29 on: January 31, 2021, 04:19:51 PM »
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  • The Carmelite cloister was the perfect cover for anonymity.

    As far as family members protesting, bribes and intimidation are the standard remedies.

    To the question of what did the imposter’s backers have to gain?

    The answer is: Acceptance of the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic regime’s takeover of the Catholic Church.

    Sr. Lucy II was wheeled out for photo opportunities with the little Jєω-Pope, Paul VI, giving him her “Fatima” endorsement.

    She paid reverence to JPII, the charismatic jew Pope and gave a thumbs-up to B16’s ridiculous version of the 3rd Secret of Fatima.

    Why did she do it?  Who cares... she’s paying for it now.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi