Author Topic: MONS.ARTHUR B.CALKINS CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH VATICAN (E (Read 1052 times)

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2010, 09:14:19 AM »

Excellent Post.

Welcome to CatholicInfo.

Alexandria · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2010, 12:30:45 PM »

Since when does Msgr. Calkins belong to the F.I.'s?

And what about this "charge" against the MCs? Is there any verification of this?

LionelAndrades · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2010, 05:01:08 AM »

Praised be Jesus and Our Lady.

He has been a member of the Franciscans of the Immaculate for a long time .

I was told about this by an Indian sister at the M.C hospital in Rome(San Gregorio in Cielo)
In Christ
Lionel

Ladislaus · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2010, 05:56:19 AM »

Very bizarre argument IMO. Makes my brain hurt.

Church says you must explicitly enter the Church in order to be saved. V2 does not deny this because it's talking about people who implicitly enter the Church.

But if you enter implicitly, you have not entered explicitly. And if you have not entered explicitly you cannot be saved. Therefore if you enter implicitly you cannot be saved.

Someone needs to revisit their Logic 101 class from seminary.

Unfortunately, these are the gyrations and contradictions you get from people who want to affirm EENS and yet believe in BoD at the same time.

Ah, yes, the fruits of "saint" Mother Theresa.

LionelAndrades · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2010, 04:16:58 AM »

Ladislaus,
Praised be Jesus and Our Lady.

Quote

Very bizarre argument IMO. Makes my brain hurt.

What is IMO?

Quote

Church says you must explicitly enter the Church in order to be saved.

Correct. Everyone needs to de facto enter the Church explicilty( with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith)

Quote

V2 does not deny this because it's talking about people who implicitly enter the Church.

Vatican Council II affirms it in Ad Gentes 7 when it states all people need to enter the Church through baptism and Catholic Faith.
But if you enter implicitly, you have not entered explicitly.

If you have entered explicilty you have not entered implicitly,true.
Explicitly is de facto, real, which you can see. Implicitly is subjective, conceptual and de jure.

Quote

And if you have not entered explicitly you cannot be saved.

We come to the subject of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.
Everyone needs to explicitly enter the Church for salvation and if there is someone saved implicitly it is known to God only.
Therefore if you enter implicitly you cannot be saved.
If God wishes it then in 'certain circuмstances'(Letter of the Holy Office 1949) and known only to God, God will provide the helps needed, a person can be saved.

Since it is implicit it is a hypothetical subject, something conceptual. We personally do not know people who have been saved with implicit faith (baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc)

Quote

Someone needs to revisit their Logic 101 class from seminary.

It is simple when we are clear that explicit is real and seeable and verifiable while implicit is imaginary, intellectual and acceptable only in principle.

Unfortunately, these are the gyrations and contradictions you get from people who want to affirm EENS and yet believe in BoD at the same time.

EENS refers to explicit salvation,i.e the need for the baptism of water and learning and expressing Catholic Faith. So it is not in conflict with the Baptism of Desire which is implicit and subjective and personal.

The error emerges when we consider the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance as explicit, verifiable and not known to God only. This is the Richard Cushing doctrine.It was brought into the Church in the 1940s and a Jesuit helped place it in Vatican Council II.
So when we read Lumen Gentium 16 we have to be careful not to interpret it as referring to explicit salvation.

Quote

Ah, yes, the fruits of "saint" Mother Theresa.

Mother Teresa was orthodox.