Author Topic: Modernism and Pope Francis. (Read 3322 times)

crossbro · « **on:** March 12, 2014, 12:12:20 AM »

In regards to atheists going to heaven:

Quote

A. The Vatican Council most justly decreed: If anyone says that man cannot be raised by God to a knowledge and perfection which surpasses nature, but that he can and should, by his own efforts and by a constant development, attain finally to the possession of all truth and good, let him be anathema (De Revel, can 3).

- A Catechism of Modernism, Rev Lemius.

Quote

True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. "

- Pope Francis.

Quote

Q. Do these lay Catholics and priests, who pose as reformers of the Church, dare to attack Christ’s work ? Do they even attack the very person of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ ?
A. Forming more boldly into the line of attack, they assail all that is most sacred in the work of Christ, not sparing even the person of the divine redeemer, whom, with sacrilegious daring, they reduce to a simple, mere man.

-- A Catechism of Modernism, Rev Lemius.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2014, 07:32:21 AM »

.

Fr. Lemius wrote a great catechism, and his work was hailed by Pope St. Pius X from the very start as an essential compliment to the encyclical, Pascendi.

Everyone can benefit from reading A Catechism of Modernism.

In regards to Pope Francis, there is a recent sermon by Fr. Pfeiffer that contains a lot of food for thought, in context of the papacy, prophesy, history, and the Feast Day of the Chair of Peter, given in New Jersey on Feb. 22nd, 2013:

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/7lbsu54186bcfb7/Fr+J+Pfeiffer+Feb+22+2014+Saint+Peter%27s+Chair+Jersey+City+NJ%281%29.MP3#39;s_ChairJersey_City%281%29.MP3

.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2014, 11:34:14 AM »

I'm not sure what exactly was Modernist about Francis' statement.

It's actually a very deep way of looking at Our Redemption. Our Lord did mystically take our sins upon Himself as if they were His own; that's why He was able to make satisfaction for them, because He made them His own. When we go to Confession, it isn't just some magic. We are actually offloading our sins onto Our Lord. We put them on Him. We should actually meditate on that every time we go to Confession, and it should serve as THE deterrent from our ever sinning again.

Apart from the dumb / crass "I will sin again" and "Jesus likes that", I have no problem with what Francis said.

It's as if everyone is constantly looking for reasons to attack him. That's contrary to both charity and justice.

crossbro · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2014, 11:46:53 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

I'm not sure what exactly was Modernist about Francis' statement.

It's actually a very deep way of looking at Our Redemption. Our Lord did mystically take our sins upon Himself as if they were His own; that's why He was able to make satisfaction for them, because He made them His own. When we go to Confession, it isn't just some magic. We are actually offloading our sins onto Our Lord. We put them on Him. We should actually meditate on that every time we go to Confession, and it should serve as THE deterrent from our ever sinning again.

Apart from the dumb / crass "I will sin again" and "Jesus likes that", I have no problem with what Francis said.

It's as if everyone is constantly looking for reasons to attack him. That's contrary to both charity and justice.

We declare that we detest our sins because they offend God and swear an oath to sin no more with the help of God.

Look closely at what Pope Francis stated. He directly contradicts the teaching. The Church holds that Jesus was perfect man and perfect God. The Church holds that Jesus never sinned, hence he can never be demoted to the title of "sinner".

In addition to that he makes the unsubstantiated claim that Mary claimed she was deceived by God. That is in direct contradiction to the Gospel recorded by those who actually knew her.

The fact of the matter is we do not need to go looking for reasons to attack the Pope. I for one would like to discover some reason to trust him. But when he walks up to a boy with praying hands to pry them apart and says it is the Church mission to throw open the doors to practicing ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs then there is going to have to be a problem.

SJB · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2014, 11:53:38 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

I'm not sure what exactly was Modernist about Francis' statement.

It's actually a very deep way of looking at Our Redemption. Our Lord did mystically take our sins upon Himself as if they were His own; that's why He was able to make satisfaction for them, because He made them His own. When we go to Confession, it isn't just some magic. We are actually offloading our sins onto Our Lord. We put them on Him. We should actually meditate on that every time we go to Confession, and it should serve as THE deterrent from our ever sinning again.

Apart from the dumb / crass "I will sin again" and "Jesus likes that", I have no problem with what Francis said.

It's as if everyone is constantly looking for reasons to attack him. That's contrary to both charity and justice.

Quote from: Francis

“When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us.”

Anything to argue, eh Ladi? Frank is just a little "dumb and crass" when he states that God likes sin? So "apart from that," he's not so bad.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:11:18 PM »

You are an angry, bitter, uncharitable and dishonest person SJB.

Francis never said that God likes sin, but that Jesus "likes" taking it away from us, that Jesus likes liberating us from sin. Crude, yes, but not modernist. It is you who in your malice look for any reason to argue. I try to be fair and objective. Where there's fault to be found with Francis, there's fault to be found. But it is against charity and justice to "FIND" something to attack every time he opens his mouth just because you have contempt for him.

SJB · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

You are an angry, bitter, uncharitable and dishonest person SJB.

Francis never said that God likes sin, but that Jesus "likes" taking it away from us, that Jesus likes liberating us from sin. Crude, yes, but not modernist. It is you who in your malice look for any reason to argue. I try to be fair and objective. Where there's fault to be found with Francis, there's fault to be found. But it is against charity and justice to "FIND" something to attack every time he opens his mouth just because you have contempt for him.

Quote from: Francis

We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that ...

Why are you defending this, Ladi? It's indefensible! It's unorthodox!

I will sin again? In confession we must have a firm resolution to NOT sin again.

I guess Ladi just thinks Francis is misunderstood.

crossbro · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:26:27 PM »

.edit

crossbro · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:28:03 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

You are an angry, bitter, uncharitable and dishonest person SJB.

Francis never said that God likes sin, but that Jesus "likes" taking it away from us, that Jesus likes liberating us from sin. Crude, yes, but not modernist. It is you who in your malice look for any reason to argue. I try to be fair and objective. Where there's fault to be found with Francis, there's fault to be found. But it is against charity and justice to "FIND" something to attack every time he opens his mouth just because you have contempt for him.

Yes, why get a little upset when Pope Francis comma heretic calls traditionalist self-absorbed retrogrades and demotes traditionalism to "fashion".

Quote

Q. ...how do the modernists deal with second obstacle, as they call Tradition ?
A. They exercise all their ingenuity in diminishing the force and falsifying the character of tradition, so as to rob it of all its weight.

- A Catechism of Modernism, Rev Lemius.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:28:26 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Ladislaus
You are an angry, bitter, uncharitable and dishonest person SJB.

Francis never said that God likes sin, but that Jesus "likes" taking it away from us, that Jesus likes liberating us from sin. Crude, yes, but not modernist. It is you who in your malice look for any reason to argue. I try to be fair and objective. Where there's fault to be found with Francis, there's fault to be found. But it is against charity and justice to "FIND" something to attack every time he opens his mouth just because you have contempt for him.

Quote from: Francis
We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that ...

Why are you defending this, Ladi? It's indefensible! It's unorthodox!

I will sin again? In confession we must have a firm resolution to NOT sin again.

I guess Ladi just thinks Francis is misunderstood.

We know that despite our firm resolution and best intentions we will indeed sin again.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:30:57 PM »

Quote from: crossbro

Yes, why get a little upset when Pope Francis comma heretic calls traditionalist self-absorbed retrogrades and demotes traditionalism to "fashion".

There's probably some truth to that; we need to look in the mirror. In fact, a great number of the postings on this forum only lend credibility to his assertion.

crossbro · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:32:52 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: crossbro
Yes, why get a little upset when Pope Francis comma heretic calls traditionalist self-absorbed retrogrades and demotes traditionalism to "fashion".

There's probably some truth to that; we need to look in the mirror. In fact, a great number of the postings on this forum only lend credibility to his assertion.

I will look at the facts, you look in the mirror.

Saying, "You sin too" is the quickest way to lose an argument.

SJB · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2014, 06:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Ladislaus
You are an angry, bitter, uncharitable and dishonest person SJB.

Francis never said that God likes sin, but that Jesus "likes" taking it away from us, that Jesus likes liberating us from sin. Crude, yes, but not modernist. It is you who in your malice look for any reason to argue. I try to be fair and objective. Where there's fault to be found with Francis, there's fault to be found. But it is against charity and justice to "FIND" something to attack every time he opens his mouth just because you have contempt for him.

Quote from: Francis
We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that ...

Why are you defending this, Ladi? It's indefensible! It's unorthodox!

I will sin again? In confession we must have a firm resolution to NOT sin again.

I guess Ladi just thinks Francis is misunderstood.

We know that despite our firm resolution and best intentions we will indeed sin again.

True, yet we still do not say "I will sin again," nor is God happy that we do, if we do. Do you deny that a man can confess his particular sin, and by the grace of the sacrament, not commit that particular sin again?

SJB · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2014, 07:12:37 PM »

Here:

crossbro · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2014, 11:06:38 PM »

When we swear the oath to sin no more that basically affirms that our motive is to do just that. This makes it clear to the person confessing that they cannot say they are sorry for their sins if the intent is just to keep committing them.

Note in SJB"s above source, nowhere does it stupidly state that Jesus becomes a sinner for us. Yes, Jesus died for many, but Jesus is our advocate, not our whipping boy.