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Author Topic: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?  (Read 3782 times)

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Offline Kephapaulos

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Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
« on: August 25, 2024, 10:43:06 PM »
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  • This video is so dumb and ridiculous. I found it infuriating because these indultarians still don't get it and want to save face wherever they can to salvage the modernist sect thinking it is the Catholic Church. It's too bad because I have liked this man's history talks and other stories, but he falls tremendously short here. They're just so scared of being labeled schismatic and radical. This reminds me also of when Riverrun told Michael Lofton that modernists do not actually exist anymore. 

    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #1 on: March 03, 2025, 10:33:05 PM »
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  • Bump!::)
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #2 on: March 03, 2025, 10:37:28 PM »
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  • Agreed. You can't just dismiss a term because you're sick of the reality it represents. Modernism is a specific heresy, and it still reigns supreme in the Conciliar Church. So no, it's not time to retire a perfectly useful and necessary term to describe a specific (but very broad and all-encompassing) heresy.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #3 on: March 04, 2025, 12:30:04 PM »
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  • They want to get rid of “modernist” because modernism is slowly infiltrating.

    Having a tv on church property is modernism.

    Using cell phones instead of missals and hymnals is modernism. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #4 on: March 04, 2025, 02:11:43 PM »
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  • Having a tv on church property is modernism.

    Using cell phones instead of missals and hymnals is modernism.
    This is interesting. What is the traditional definition of " Modernism? "
    Let's trust Pius X' definition, the last one.

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Modernism-Roman-Catholicism

    "... in Roman Catholic Church history, a movement in the last decade of the 19th century and first decade of the 20th that sought to reinterpret traditional Catholic teaching in the light of 19th-century philosophical, historical, and psychological theories and called for freedom of conscience. Influenced by non-Catholic biblical scholars, Modernists contended that the writers of both the Old and New Testaments were conditioned by the times in which they lived and that there had been an evolution in the history of biblical religion. Modernism also reflected a reaction against the increasing centralization of church authority in the pope and the Roman Curia (papal bureaucracy).

    ******* 
    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm
    Here is what NewAdvent says:

    Origin of the word

    Etymologically, modernism means an exaggerated love of what is modern, an infatuation for modern ideas, "the abuse of what is modern", as the Abbé Gaudaud explains (La Foi catholique, I, 1908, p. 248). 
    ********

    or:
    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34926

    "....
    religion is essentially a matter of experience, personal and collective. There is no objective revelation from God to the human race, on which Christianity is finally based, nor any reasonable grounds for credibility in the Christian faith, based on miracles or the testimony of history. Faith, therefore, is uniquely from within. In fact it is part of human nature, "a kind of motion of the heart," hidden and unconscious. It is, in Modernist terms, a natural instinct belonging to the emotions, a "feeling for the divine" that cannot be expressed in words or doctrinal propositions, an attitude of spirit that all people have naturally but that some are more aware of having....

    ******
    I see a NeoSspx priest praying his breviary from an iPad, using tiny baby wipes for baptism to clean the holy oils, removing adoring angels from the altar, co- celebrating marriages with N.O. "clergy", allowing laymen to sing the Gospel, being besides himself in joy when the protestant chaplainesse gives him permission to visit the prisoners, well, I see someone who is not Trad. 
    I'm a madernist. :mad:


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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #5 on: March 04, 2025, 02:48:02 PM »
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  • Instead of going to the prisons or they can afford a priest from one of these priories to help chapels with overflows. 

    Requiring people to get a dangerous new vaccine is modernism. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #6 on: March 04, 2025, 02:57:08 PM »
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  • Modernists view many of us as square and puritans.

    During 1900’s secular single school teachers in USA were instructed to wears skirts to their ankles and not to venture after dark. They were to stay home and read the Bible.  Modernists just laugh. They call it puritanical and Amish. 

    But look at modern schools teachers today promoting sex and sodomy. Many female teachers are even sɛҳuąƖ abusing students.  Many are teaching while doing pornography at night on computers and cell phones.  No wonder why American children are behind in reading and math. Most modernists are indifferent. 


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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #7 on: March 04, 2025, 03:03:05 PM »
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  • Instead of going to the prisons or they can afford a priest from one of these priories to help chapels with overflows. 

    Requiring people to get a dangerous new vaccine is modernism.
    Getting the clot shot is rash and morally dangerous. It is NOT Modernist.

    Words have meaning. Follow the definition set down over a century ago for Modernism. Otherwise, communication breaks down and all are reduced to grunting beasts.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #8 on: March 04, 2025, 03:12:48 PM »
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  • While I haven't watched the video, I do think that we're definitely in a post-Modernist world, where we've entered into pure phenomenology and subjectivism.  Modernists kindof tried to blend the two into some kind of system, which is why St. Pius X referred to one page being orthodox and the next being heretical.  We're in straight open apostasy ... no need to disguise it anymore like the original Modernists had to do, going underground and hiding.

    With that said, "Modernism" is a slippery term, able to manifest itself in different ways.  Lots of Trads just think that "Modernism" means being "modern", trying to reconcile with the "modern world".  No, not really.

    From a theological perspective, beyond their attacks on Sacred Scripture, which is a big subject difficult to address here, the primary theological manifestation of Modernism is the notion of the development of doctrine.  But see that presupposes that therer is some objective doctrine that we're coming to a fuller undrestanding of and that we're trying to find the ultimate meaning of (and there is a sense of this that can be legitimate, since we can never fully comprehend the mysteris of the Holy Trinity and other subjects) ... but the current group don't care, don't even believe that there IS an objective truth that we're attempting to discover, just that we make our own truth for ourselves and are our own yardsticks of truth and reality.

    Thus, we're in a post-Modernist era.

    But if there's a single word that might be synonymous with Modernism, it's Bishop Williamson's term ... subjectivism.  Classical Modernists believed that we take objective truth and that there's a collective Church's consciousness or subjectivization of the truth, where the post-Modernists care nothing about the Church but believe that every individual should filter and interpret the truth.  Both at least assume that there is an objective truth that to some degree we must conform, even if full conformity is not possible.  These post-Modernists of today believe that there is no objective truth that we're striving for but that we all create our own truths, i.e. there's a complete detachment from objective reality.

    Descartes started to use the example of an oad in the water that appears bent.  But at least in his example, there's some objective reality that correspondgs to the oar that we see, just that we can't see it perfectly and it's distorted, so we can't grasp it's total objective essence.  For the post-Modernists, if I see this bent oar in the water, there may not be an oar at all or anything resembling an oar whatsoever, i.e. where the phenomena are 100% detached from objective reality instead of just partially.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #9 on: March 04, 2025, 03:19:43 PM »
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  • Getting the clot shot is rash and morally dangerous. It is NOT Modernist.

    I made my post before I read this exchange, and it backs up completely my apprehension about the term Modernist, where most Trad Catholics have only a vague understanding of the term thinking that it has something to do with innovation and newness and modernity, and anything novel or new is "Modernist".

    There was the one guy I kept debating who asserted Vatican II is Modernist.  So I asked him to name one Modernist proposition in Vatican II.  He couldn't come up with a single thing but just kept blustering "but it's Modernist, it's Modernist".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #10 on: March 04, 2025, 03:23:17 PM »
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  • So, I listend to first 5 minutes at double speed, and he's saying exactly what I posted.  Thus far he's right on target.


    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #11 on: March 04, 2025, 03:48:47 PM »
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  • "Modernism," like other terms, becomes more and more watered down.  Consider the term "pornography."  When my mother was raised in the 1950's at St. Joseph's Orphanage (by fifty nuns/and she was confirmed by Bp. Sheen), the nuns would stand in front of the movie projector whenever there was a beach scene, because the women were wearing full-piece swimsuits, immodest.  My, my how things have changed!  
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modernism a term not applicable anymore?
    « Reply #12 on: March 04, 2025, 03:55:18 PM »
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  • Getting the clot shot is rash and morally dangerous. It is NOT Modernist.

    Words have meaning. Follow the definition set down over a century ago for Modernism. Otherwise, communication breaks down and all are reduced to grunting beasts.
    Too late for that.  Grunting beasts everywhere with communication breakdowns due modern inventions like tv, cell phones etc. zombies. 
    May God bless you and keep you