Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Gabriella on November 19, 2025, 01:32:19 PM
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Here is important announcement from His Excellency, Bishop Anthony Ward for whoever is interested in hearing it: https://servi.org/bishop-adw11162025/ (https://servi.org/bishop-adw11162025/)
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This is interesting, thanks for sharing.
Do you know who consecrated Bishop Ward?
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This is interesting, thanks for sharing.
Do you know who consecrated Bishop Ward?
Ditto.
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What's it about? It plays very slow and broken up for me.
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In the video (which I watched in bits and pieces until I got to that part), retired bishop Telesphorus Mpundu of Zambia consecrated Bishop Ward.
I have to wonder what questions this is going to raise, in that Mpundu was presumably consecrated in the post-V2 rite by a bishop who was consecrated the same way. Moreover, he was ordained a priest in 1972, again, presumably in the new rites.
Per Wikipedia, Mpundu incurred latae sententiae excommunication for consecrating Ward. Got to wonder how this is going to play out.
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What's it about? It plays very slow and broken up for me.
It seems to be playing fine. Maybe too many people were playing it? I wouldn’t know.
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In the video (which I watched in bits and pieces until I got to that part), retired bishop Telesphorus Mpundu of Zambia consecrated Bishop Ward.
I have to wonder what questions this is going to raise, in that Mpundu was presumably consecrated in the post-V2 rite by a bishop who was consecrated the same way. Moreover, he was ordained a priest in 1972, again, presumably in the new rites.
Per Wikipedia, Mpundu incurred latae sententiae excommunication for consecrating Ward. Got to wonder how this is going to play out.
It’s worth a listen. It is about a lot more than what you state here!
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Yes because we were lacking Thuc line bishops.
We're up now from 400 of them to 401. Progress people, progress....
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It seems to be playing fine. Maybe too many people were playing it? I wouldn’t know.
Mozilla was way choppy, but Chrome it worked fine for me.
Thanks for posting Gabriella.
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Yes because we were lacking Thuc line bishops.
We're up now from 400 of them to 401. Progress people, progress....
Mpundu is not a Thuc-line bishop. So far as I am aware, he was ordained a priest, and consecrated a bishop, within the mainline post-Vatican II framework. I would expect the usual debate about the validity of post-Vatican II orders, which he would possess even if he consecrated Bishop Ward using the traditional ordo.
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Conciliar news outlet reported on this yesterday here’s the link: https://thecatholicherald.com/article/servants-of-the-holy-family-founder-breaks-silence-on-covert-consecration-and-excommunication
I would like to understand more so that I can accurately trace the sacramental lineage involved. From what is publicly available online, However, these sources do not specify whether his episcopal consecration was performed in the traditional pre-conciliar rite or the post-conciliar rite. So far what is available online is the following:
Mpundu ordained priest → 17 Dec 1972 (presumably new rite)
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Mpundu consecrated bishop → 21 Jun 1987 (presumably new rite)
Consecrated by Bishop Adolf Fürstenberg, M. Afr. (ordained bishop 29 Jun 1959, old rite), assisted by Archbishops Elias White Mutale (ordained bishop 12 Sep 1971, presumably new rite) and Adrian Mung’andu (ordained bishop 9 Feb 1975, presumably new rite)
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Mpundu consecrated Bishop Anthony Ward → 19 Mar 2024, Feast of Saint Joseph (old rite, per Servants of the Holy Family)
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Conciliar news outlet reported on this yesterday here’s the link: https://thecatholicherald.com/article/servants-of-the-holy-family-founder-breaks-silence-on-covert-consecration-and-excommunication
I would like to understand more so that I can accurately trace the sacramental lineage involved. From what is publicly available online, However, these sources do not specify whether his episcopal consecration was performed in the traditional pre-conciliar rite or the post-conciliar rite. So far what is available online is the following:
Mpundu ordained priest → 17 Dec 1972 (presumably new rite)
│
▼
Mpundu consecrated bishop → 21 Jun 1987 (presumably new rite)
Consecrated by Bishop Adolf Fürstenberg, M. Afr. (ordained bishop 29 Jun 1959, old rite), assisted by Archbishops Elias White Mutale (ordained bishop 12 Sep 1971, presumably new rite) and Adrian Mung’andu (ordained bishop 9 Feb 1975, presumably new rite)
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Mpundu consecrated Bishop Anthony Ward → 19 Mar 2024, Feast of Saint Joseph (old rite, per Servants of the Holy Family)
The episcopal consecration was done in the traditional preconciliar rite.
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I thought the various trad approaches were covered. Is he creating the New Resistance or something? Resisting Kimmage only or what?
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The episcopal consecration was done in the traditional preconciliar rite.
Yes I do understand Bishop Ward was.
I am asking if the Bishop who consecrated him, Archbishop Mpundu, was consecrated in the new rite or the old rite.
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SHF has always claimed to have had assistance for the Sacrament of Confirmation and holy oils from retired or current bishops from the Novus Ordo, so I would think they do consider the New Rites in general to be valid (if validly celebrated).
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SHF has always claimed to have had assistance for the Sacrament of Confirmation and holy oils from retired or current bishops from the Novus Ordo, so I would think they do consider the New Rites in general to be valid (if validly celebrated).
That is a stretch.
To my knowledge Servants of the Holy Family has considered the Novus Ordo to be “questionably valid” and does not recommend for laity to participate in it, even when no other Mass is available.
This is a separate topic from whether someone is a legitimate bishop or not.
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Monograph that was put out by the Servants of the Holy Family in defense of our Catholic Faith and on the consecration of Bishop Anthony D. Ward: Monograph (https://servi.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/monograph-shf-2025.pdf)
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Mpundu is not a Thuc-line bishop. So far as I am aware, he was ordained a priest, and consecrated a bishop, within the mainline post-Vatican II framework. I would expect the usual debate about the validity of post-Vatican II orders, which he would possess even if he consecrated Bishop Ward using the traditional ordo.
Still doubtful though for different reasons.
When Christendom is restored they will all come to our Bishops to get conditional ordination and consecration.
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Still doubtful though for different reasons.
When Christendom is restored they will all come to our Bishops to get conditional ordination and consecration.
Show me Bishop Williamsons baptismal certificate, dork.
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Show me Bishop Williamsons baptismal certificate, dork.
Thats a negative doubt.
I'm talking about a positive doubt.