Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: John Grace on April 17, 2012, 05:21:10 AM
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Post from Dumb Ox on Ignis
Menzingen Has Spoken, By Way of Der Spiegel
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9149
This important article was posted by Gabriel in another thread but its import was sadly lost amongst a barrage of facetious juvenility.
The journalist, Wensierski, is a friend and collaborator of "He who shall remain nameless" and Fr. Pfluger and is undoubtedly well-informed as to the content of Menzingen's response to NewChurch.
So here we have it - "The letter makes clear that conflicting positions on Vatican II is "not decisive" for the future of the Catholic Church. In short, the Society of St. Pius X is no longer demanding that the Vatican II reforms be repealed".
Spiegel Online International
04/16/2012
Healing a Schism
Vatican and Breakaway SSPX Seek Common Ground
By Peter Wensierski in Rome
For decades, the ultra-conservative Society of St. Pius X has been on the outside of the Catholic Church and looking in. Now, with Pope Benedict XVI intent on healing the schism, the group -- known as SSPX -- has written a letter that could pave the way for an agreement.
For the pope's 85th birthday on Monday, his own brother showed up in Rome empty handed. But the brothers of the controversial Catholic splinter group Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) were more generous. They sent a letter -- and its contents may be the greatest gift yet to the papacy of Benedict XVI. The pope has long wanted to heal the schism with the SSPX and bring the conservative followers of the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre back into the fold. That hope may now become reality.
The Catholic traditionalist Lefebvre founded the SSPX in 1969 in answer to the reforms pushed through by the Second Vatican Council, also known as Vatican II, earlier that decade. The group has grown to include tens of thousands of followers and hundreds of priests -- a "painful wound in the body of the church," Benedict XVI has said.
Even when SSPX Bishop Richard Williamson made global headlines in 2009 by publicly denying the h0Ɩ0cαųst, the pope remained steadfast. Indeed, talks between the Vatican and the SSPX continued a short time later once Williamson, a native of Great Britain, had been marginalized. Now, it looks as though an agreement may be imminent.
Not everyone in the church is likely to be pleased by such a rapprochement. Liberal and left-leaning Catholics have long been opposed to the idea of allowing the SSPX back into the fold, granting them the right to once again consecrate priests and letting them celebrate mass according to the old rites. The Bishops' Conference of France is likely to protest as well. But the German pope Josef Ratzinger is determined.
Utmost Discretion
The friendly letter from the SSPX to Benedict XVI arrived at the Vatican during Easter. In the Vatican's Secretariat of State -- the source of several docuмents that were leaked in recent months in the so-called "Vatileaks" scandal -- has classified the SSPX letter as secret and the issue is being handled with the utmost discretion. It is only to be made public following the pope's birthday celebrations.
Sources say that the letter is currently being analyzed. Not everyone within the Secretariat is supportive of Benedict's desire to reunite with the SSPX. Currently, talks with the St. Pius brothers are focused on several outstanding details as well as the timing of the pending agreement.
Following lengthy negotiations between the Catholic Church and the SSPX regarding a possible reunification, the Vatican had requested a response by Sunday. Specifically, the SSPX was to rethink its strict opposition to the Second Vatican Council -- which began 50 years ago this year -- as well as "several doctrinal principles and criteria relating to the interpretation of the Catholic doctrine."
Cardinal William Levada, in his position as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, had communicated the ultimatum to SSPX leader Bishop Bernard Fellay during talks at the Vatican and asked him to once again reexamine its positions.
The new letter is significant in that it seeks to tone down the conflict. Points of disagreement are no longer to be seen in terms of who is "more Catholic" than the other. The letter makes clear that conflicting positions on Vatican II is "not decisive" for the future of the Catholic Church. In short, the Society of St. Pius X is no longer demanding that the Vatican II reforms be repealed.
'God's Will Be Done'
Levada had demanded that Fellay sign a "doctrinal preamble" as a prerequisite for any further rapprochement. Yet despite what the SSPX calls Levada's "disagreeable tone," the breakaway traditionalists have "justifiable hopes for a satisfactory solution" -- particularly given that the healing of a division within the Church is at stake.
The German Cardinal Josef Becker, an advisor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and a participant in the talks with the SSPX, said recently that it is difficult to find common ground in the positions held by the Catholic Church and the Society of St. Pius X. But, he added, each side must "try to understand" the other. He also said that the Church must re-examine all Vatican II texts to understand them from today's perspective.
SSPX leader Fellay, for his part, recently made a request of his followers. In light of the letter he recently sent to the pope, he asked them to "double their fervor and magnanimity in prayer and sacrifice in these holy days and during the weeks following Easter, so that God's will be done."
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In an exchange with a Facebook friend of Max Krah, 'Dumb Ox' stated
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
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Also Krah has recently 'liked' an event organised in America of whose Chairman is an ex Chief of Mossad. Meir Dagan.Yesh Sikuy! Israel's Hope's NY Activists
I do hope those who mocked the Krahgate team will be making apologies as they were working for good of SSPX and Catholic Tradition.Those who supported the Menzingen lawyer despite everything have been had and must feel like fools.
These are no "internet rumours".
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Clare for example had the audacity to say I was 'obsessed' and didn't find Krahgate 'edifying'.
As as SSPX attendee, I do hope she will be asking questions of this. Krah is lawyer for a priestly society yet you read this. He is the board of a girls school.I do hope SSPX attendees speak to their clerics about this.
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
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Schhhh ..... the Crow is good at chasing legacies ...... for the good of Society stomachs, if not their souls ......
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Schhhh ..... the Crow is good at chasing legacies ...... for the good of Society stomachs, if not their souls ......
We had Ashmolean and others on Ignis Ardens laugh at and mock the Krahgate team. They ought to hang their head in shame if they have any shame.
The Krahgate team are certainly vindicated and thank God for 'William of Norwich'. It would be amazing if people still defend Krah and Fr Pfluger or even Bishop Fellay. Bishop Fellay is either in on it or has been taken for a complete fool by those seeking to destroy the SSPX.
Anything I have said or written about Krahgate, I am happy to go to court over it. I dealt with facts that can be proven. Also more importantly, I am happy to stand before God and make no apologies for involving myself in Krahgate. I'm not WON or Veritas1961 but read the file and realised I couldn't in conscience remain silent about it. There was a bigger picture and Tradition was at stake. I realised an enemy was at work, and couldn't sit by and allow the enemy to destroy.
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Reading Rorate Caeli or Father Z, one sees this significant body of 'conservatives' who have no idea at what is at stake as far as the wider picture is concerned. Even though the world is collapsing around them, they berate and ridicule those not wanting to share in their smug air of resignation because it is much easier to sweep awkward issues under the carpet than confront them. A familiar pattern in human affairs seen everywhere including on trad sites. Which makes it much harder for whistle blowers because former colleagues may turn against you, having no stomach for the fight. One does not know how people turn out when tested.
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Do the critics of the Krahgate team not realise facts can be proven and material substantiated?
Why is a Society employee 'liking' "photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?"
This is outrageous and a scandal. It shouldn't be dismissed. We give this priestly society our money to finance our chapels and their priests.
This Max Krah is on company boards with Society priests. I do question their judgement and why this man was hired?
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I do hope people will understand the 'concerns' as an earlier 'like' of Krah was 'DesignerHeels'. This has been since removed from his 'likes'.
http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=printer&t=15187
Maximilian Krah (Facebook)
Quote:
Activities and Interests
Other Columbia University, Thomas de Maizière, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, Angela Merkel, London Business School, KDStV Chursachsen, 116. Mittelschule Dresden, Kreuzgymnasium, Columbia University, Columbia Business School Executive MBA Program, LinkedIn, Mittelstandsvereinigung der CDU Dresden, CDU Dresden, Hotel Sacher, Josef Ackermann, Agent Provocateur, Joachim Gauck, Exzellenz für Dresden, Junge Union Dresden, Junge Union Sachsen & Niederschlesien, Lufthansa, Lufthansa Senator Status, The Oratory of S Philip Neri in London (Brompton Oratory), Pushkin Cafe, Russian Ministry for Economic Development, Sankt Petersburg, Moscow, Patrick Schreiber, GUT JAIDHOF, DesignerHeels, vorne-sitzen.de, Ipad 2, Boris Johnson, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, EINSTEIN KAFFEE Dresden, Bobby Jindal, Friedrich Merz, Columbia Business School, Russian Standard Deutschland, gerne-katholisch.de, EB&Flow, CDU Dresden - Ortsverband Zschachwitz, CallaJet.de (Privatjet Charter Broker), German Embassy Washington, CDU-Fraktion Sachsen, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Henryk M. Broder, The Economist, Support German Troops, Donald Rumsfeld, Dmitri Shostakovich, Wir wollen Guttenberg zurück, DER SPIEGEL, Nicolas Sarkozy, Royal Opera House, Semperoper, FÜR Stuttgart 21, Benedikt XVI, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung, SPAM, CDU Hamburg, EMBA Global Asia 2012and 47 more
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This is what 'Agent Provocateur' is
Welcome to the official fan page of luxury lingerie brand, Agent Provocateur.
"The sexiest website in the world", Vogue.
Company Overview The world famous luxury lingerie brand has stores across the fashion centres of the world, including in London, New York, Vancouver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Paris, Vienna, Berlin and more. The first shop was opened on London's Broadwick Street in the Soho district in 1994.
Mission Agent Provocateur believes that passion and intimacy should be indulged, and that exploring your inner desires and fantasies profoundly enriches your life.
Agent Provocateur lingerie is an opulent range of inspirational creations, designed to intensify life’s pleasures and unlock your innermost desires. Our elegant ranges, designed with both the boardroom and the boudoir in mind, ensure that women can be sexy and professional as the mood takes them.
Products Designer lingerie - Bras - Knickers - Suspender belts - Corsetry - Bodysuits - Nightwear - Hosiery - Garters - Bridal lingerie - Swimwear - Perfume - Beauty products - Massage oil - Pasties - Whips - Gloves -
Why is a man on board of a Catholic girls school liking such items?
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In an exchange with a Facebook friend of Max Krah, 'Dumb Ox' stated
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
It's very disturbing if Krah is still involved in this school as this grave matter was highlighted over a year ago. Has the German District and the school done anything? It's not acceptable. Has Bishop Fellay, the Superior General of the SSPX done anything? Any reply from Fr Laisney who involved himself in Krahgate by stating "Maximilian Krah is one of our faithful"?Fr Laisney's comments raised more questions than answers
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Through time and the power they hold (threats of lawsuits etc..), the sspx managed to weather the storm of the Krahgate scandal....now, as far as sspx faithful are concerned...many have simply forgotten, the scandal and its implications have been dulled in the memories of many, some have chosen blind obedience to +Fellay and a 'head in the sand' mentality, and some opt to forget and ignore the scandal, by their own choice, regardless of the facts.
Time heals all wounds...and dulls the memory!
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If you follow this link you will see his name Herr RA Maximilian Krah
http://www.theresiengymnasium.de/ueber-uns/organisationsstruktur.html
You will find contact details for the school here.
http://www.theresiengymnasium.de/kontakt/adressen.html
info@st-theresia-gym.de
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Many thanks to 'Dumb Ox' for bringing this to our attention. A very disturbing episode for the SSPX. Krah isn't even a competent lawyer so why is he so influential within the Society? Who hired him and why? They are valid questions. He is an employee of this specific priestly society.
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Google translation.
http://www.lectiobrevior.de/2012/03/wie-man-wachst-ohne-groer-zu-werden.html
Maximilian Krah said ...
Dear Mr. Schneider, the SSPX is since it was founded in 1970 as a sect abused, what has so far at least slowing its spread most, but not prevented. Why the change in the event that the negotiations drag on, should be is not clear. And, neither Rome nor Menzingen have an interest to cancel the contact. So it's just a question. Agreement or further negotiations now I hope to reach an agreement. There is no "unique selling proposition", because the charm of the SSPX is not in the canonical unsettled situation - which is more of a burden, albeit a portable - but in the traditional pastoral care, catechesis and liturgy. The groups that operate here like the SSPX, but are regularized, have all the feed, the trouble with Rome, there is no need for it. But other groups are holding significantly less than the SSPX, which is the focus of the whole "traditional sector" and therefore, logically, for the entire "field" has held the spiritual lead.
14th March 2012 15:05
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In an exchange with a Facebook friend of Max Krah, 'Dumb Ox' stated
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
Is this Alice the same Alice from Oklahoma who posts as ACS, nicknamed "University Womyn," and is coddled at Ignis Ardens despite her feminist and anti-Catholic postings?
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A pertinent post here.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9149&st=50
Dear Brother Anthony,
"This too incredible to believe. I refuse to believe it, unless I hear it from Bishop Fellay himself. This statement is tantamount to a betrayal to the Catholic resistance against a council that has been the cause of the loss of countless souls. To take a position of apathy would be treacherous to what the Church has always done, that is, condemn pernicious errors!"
I am reluctant to believe it myself; I do not want to believe it but, nevertheless, facts are facts and it is difficult not to draw certain conclusions from them.
Fact 1.
The following words were written by Peter Wensierski:
"The letter makes clear that conflicting positions on Vatican II is 'not decisive' for the future of the Catholic Church. In short, the Society of St. Pius X is no longer demanding that the Vatican II reforms be repealed".
Fact 2.
Peter Wensierski is a friend and close collaborator of Fr. Pfluger and The Crow.
Fact 3.
Bishop Fellay has welcomed and encouraged the close collaboration between Wensierski, Fr. Pfluger and "He who shall remain nameless".
Fact 4.
The level of collaboration and trust between the powers-that-be at Menzingen and Peter Wensierski extends to the level of providing to him the content of private communication between Bishop Williamson and Menzingen for Wensierski to make use of in his journalism.
Fact 5.
It was to Wensierski that the powers-that-be at Menzingen described Bishop Williamson in terms of being "a first class provocateur" who "has always had strange ideas", someone who "exaggerates", someone who "is not a scholar", someone who is "a ticking time bomb", someone likened to "uranium", someone who "doesn't study the docuмents", someone with "Parkinson's Disease", and so on.
Fact 6.
In contrast Fr. Pfluger describes Wensierski as someone who is "honest and upright" and who is "most helpful for the Society".
I am reluctantly forced to conclude that Wensierski has indeed been informed of the content of Bishop Fellay's response to NewChurch and that Wensierski is merely acting in his capacity of being "most helpful for the Society".
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"This too incredible to believe. I refuse to believe it, unless I hear it from Bishop Fellay himself.
This comment from Brother Anthony is a good example though 'Dumb Ox' states the facts for him. The fact that Max Krah still holds a position in the SSPX is revealing in itself. Bernadette is correct to a degree in her analysis earlier in the thread.
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I said at the time for a lawyer to behave in such a way was hardly professional but as he was hardly out of his twenties (and still going to school!) there seems to be a new craze among young people to saturate the web with all kinds of links and associations in order to maximise the 'benefits' of networking. This is quite the opposite to keeping one's life strictly private so as not to harm one's good name and embarrass one's clients, family and friends. For Menzingen to employ the services of such questionable people may be a surprising relaxation of a code of practice to copy what is going on in other religious institutions or is the frequent problem of having favourites at court that acquire an aura of indispensibility.
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http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9149&st=50
Fact 2.
Peter Wensierski is a friend and close collaborator of Fr. Pfluger and The Crow.
Fact 3.
Bishop Fellay has welcomed and encouraged the close collaboration between Wensierski, Fr. Pfluger and "He who shall remain nameless".
Fact 4.
The level of collaboration and trust between the powers-that-be at Menzingen and Peter Wensierski extends to the level of providing to him the content of private communication between Bishop Williamson and Menzingen for Wensierski to make use of in his journalism.
Fact 5.
It was to Wensierski that the powers-that-be at Menzingen described Bishop Williamson in terms of being "a first class provocateur" who "has always had strange ideas", someone who "exaggerates", someone who "is not a scholar", someone who is "a ticking time bomb", someone likened to "uranium", someone who "doesn't study the docuмents", someone with "Parkinson's Disease", and so on.
Fact 6.
In contrast Fr. Pfluger describes Wensierski as someone who is "honest and upright" and who is "most helpful for the Society".
I am reluctantly forced to conclude that Wensierski has indeed been informed of the content of Bishop Fellay's response to NewChurch and that Wensierski is merely acting in his capacity of being "most helpful for the Society".
Dumb Ox, these are certainly not facts. At best allegations. Once again omit references for your "facts". Without any sources it is difficult to accept what you write.
The only one I could find was a Der Spiegel article for no. 5. However, you mis-quoted some of the content (first class provocateur and always had strange ideas were not direct quotes from Fr. Pfluger) and you conveniently omitted he also points out that the bishop has many merits, and that he shouldn't be "exiled to the Moon." from the article.
Dear Henry V,
They are indeed facts, not allegations.
Copies of the various source texts sit in front of me as I write.
Whether you personally wish to accept it or not is not my concern nor my problem.
This 'Henry V' is unbelievable. Well stated, Dumb Ox. :applause:
Are we to take it 'Henry V' is happy with a 'sell out'? It's worrying he overlooks the antics of Krah.
I'm not surprised Krah is still in the job when you have people like 'Henry V'.
If 'Henry V' wishes to ignore facts that is his problem. Shame on him if supports Krah.The same 'Henry V' who stated that "disobedience is the vice of the Irish." I stand corrected but he appears very anti-Irish.
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The same 'Henry V' who stated that "disobedience is the vice of the Irish." I stand corrected but he appears very anti-Irish.
Not relevant to thread so can be scrapped by moderator if he wishes. It's amazing how Henry V can overlook certain matters and has audacity to state Dumb Ox is making allegations when he is presenting FACTS.
This 'Henry V' is obviously seeking to provoke people.
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Will Henry V comment on this? He was rather quick to say Dumb Ox was making allegations yet overlooked the 'likes' of the Menzingen lawyer and on board of a girls school.
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
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The same 'Henry V' who stated that "disobedience is the vice of the Irish." I stand corrected but he appears very anti-Irish.
That's a strange statement given that the Irish were one of the most, if not thee most Ultramontane countries and people.
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The same 'Henry V' who stated that "disobedience is the vice of the Irish." I stand corrected but he appears very anti-Irish.
That's a strange statement given that the Irish were one of the most, if not thee most Ultramontane countries and people.
Like the comment by diego regarding ACS this is not relevant for thread. A discussion for another day. Henry V took issue with the Irish asking about Krahgate' We are not sheeple or fools.
I'm more concerned as to why this 'Henry V' has dismissed facts and stated they are allegations.
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We had Ashmolean and others on Ignis Ardens laugh at and mock the Krahgate team. They ought to hang their head in shame if they have any shame.
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That is debatable. People were claiming that Crow is Jєωιѕн. Ashmo was for ACCURATE facts when making legitimate criticisms.
That important distinction went over the heads of the those who decided to call Ashmo a mason, Jew, etc. without one shred of proof, and despite assurances to the contrary of people who assist at Mass with him.
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I said at the time for a lawyer to behave in such a way was hardly professional but as he was hardly out of his twenties (and still going to school!) there seems to be a new craze among young people to saturate the web with all kinds of links and associations in order to maximise the 'benefits' of networking. This is quite the opposite to keeping one's life strictly private so as not to harm one's good name and embarrass one's clients, family and friends. For Menzingen to employ the services of such questionable people may be a surprising relaxation of a code of practice to copy what is going on in other religious institutions or is the frequent problem of having favourites at court that acquire an aura of indispensibility.
I agree.
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'Henry V' is unbelievable.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9149&st=50
QUOTE (Dumb Ox @ Apr 17 2012, 05:41 PM)
Dear Henry V,
They are indeed facts, not allegations.
Copies of the various source texts sit in front of me as I write.
Whether you personally wish to accept it or not is not my concern nor my problem.
No Dumb Ox, they are allegations. Although some, depending on your intent could be considered calumnious.
To take the second one, what constitutes friendship? The mere fact that Fr. Pfluger gave an interview to Wensierski? What is Fr. Pfluger collaborating in exactly? And by collaborator what definition do you intend:to work jointly with others or to assist an enemy.
The problem is Dumb Ox your 'sources' do not support your allegations. I'm just making the reader aware of that fact.
I wonder which cleric has asked 'Henry V' to attack 'Dumb Ox? Will there be an attempt to dismiss facts and truth as "internet rumours"? Henry V is unbelievable.Shame on him. I suppose it is to be expected from those who sold out. Perhaps 'Henry V' should go to Papa Stronsay with the traitors there.
The likes of Dumb Ox is working for good of SSPX. That rubbish from Henry V is something else. It is he who is making out Dumb Ox to be wrong.
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Dear Henry V,
We would much prefer that The Crow come here himself and attempt to offer a defence than to hide behind your pants. You do not make a suitable mouth-piece for him.
Fair play to 'Dumb Ox'. He has my support.
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Henry V appears to be overlooking this.This is how it appears any ways. He would rather try portray Dumb Ox as a liar.
Certainly you have no idea, Alice.
No idea at all.
By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?
She is a stunner isn't she!
Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?
Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.
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I suppose it is to be expected from those who sold out. Perhaps 'Henry V' should go to Papa Stronsay with the traitors there.
Ok. I go too far here but I find Henry V unbelievable even though he is presented with facts. Worse some SSPX attendee are getting. It would be laughable if situation was not so serious.
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People were claiming that Crow is Jєωιѕн
With respect even Krah never denied being Jєωιѕн but questions remain.
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It certainly sends out a wrong message as it seems Henry V is overlooking the antics of Krah or the revelation about his Facebook page. This man is employed by the SSPX and it is a scandal. Why is Henry V so dismissive and quick to brand Dumb Ox a liar? Is this the best they can do? Dismiss facts and truth as "allegations" and "internet rumours"?
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If Henry V or others over on IA wish to dismiss facts it is their problem. Same for any SSPX cleric. The facts are staring them in the face. No point in getting worked up if they are unable to face the truth.
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Henry V has posted this on Ignis.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/04/for-record-latest-tornielli-fellays.html
Just mentioned by Andrea Tornielli for La Stampa:
Lefebvrists: the positive response has arrived
17.09.2012 (1900 GMT - 2100 Rome)
The Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X has signed the doctrinal preamble proposed by the Holy See, even if with some slight modifications
ANDREA TORNIELLI
CITTÀ DEL VATICANO
The response of the Society of Saint Pius X has arrived in the Vatican and it is positive: according to the informal information gathered by Vatican Insider, Bishop Bernard Fellay would have signed the doctrinal preamble that the Holy See had proposed last September as a condition to reach full communion and canonical regularization.
An official confirmation of the received response should take place in the next few hours. From what has been learned, the text of the preamble sent by Fellay proposed some non-substantial modifications regarding the version delivered by the Vatican authorities: as it may be recalled, the same Ecclesia Dei Commission had not willed to make the docuмent (of [only] two, yet complex, pages) public, precisely because the possibility remained of introducing eventual small modifications which would not, nonetheless, distort its meaning.
The preamble contains, subtantially, the "professio fidei", the profession of faith [Rorate note 1] required of those who are put in charge of an ecclesiastical position. And it thus establishes a "religious submission of will and intellect" be given to the teachings that the Pope and the College of Bishops "enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium", even if not proclaimed and defined in a dogmatic sense, as in the case of the greater part of the magisterial docuмents. The Holy See has mentioned repeatedly to her partners in the Society of Saint Pius X that signing the doctrinal preamble would not mean putting and end "to the legitimate discussion, study, and theological explanations of specific expressions or formulations present in the docuмents of the Second Vatican Council."
The text of the preamble, with the modifications proposed by Fellay, and signed by him as Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X, will be presented to Benedict XVI, who, on the day following his 85th birthday and on the even of the seventh anniversary of his election, receives a positive response from the Lefebvrists. A response long expected and desired by him, who, in the next few weeks, will put an end to the wound opened in 1988 with the illegitimate episcopal ordinations celebrated by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
It is not ruled out that Fellay's response be examined by the Cardinals of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in the next "Feria Quarta" [Wednesday] meeting, which should take place in the first half of May. Meanwhile, some further weeks will be needed so that a canonical arrangement can be established: the most probable proposal is that of establishing a "personal prelature", a legal figure introduced in the Code of Canon Law in 1983 [Rorate note 2] and up to now used only by Opus Dei. The prelate depends directly of the Holy See. The Society of Saint Pius X will continue to celebrate Mass according to the ancient Missal, and to form its priests in its seminaries. [Source, in Italian]
Rorate note 1: Profession of faith, motu proprio Ad tuendam fidem, and CDF Doctrinal Commentary (1998)
Rorate note 2: actually first mentioned in an official ecclesial text in the very relevant n. 10 of the Decree on the Ministry and Life of Priests of the Second Vatican Council, Presbyterorum Ordinis: "Present norms of incardination and excardination should be so revised that, while this ancient institution still remains intact, they will better correspond to today's pastoral needs. Where a real apostolic spirit requires it, not only should a better distribution of priests be brought about but there should also be favored such particular pastoral works as are necessary in any region or nation anywhere on earth. To accomplish this purpose there should be set up international seminaries, special personal dioceses or prelatures (vicariates), and so forth, by means of which, according to their particular statutes and always saving the right of bishops, priests may be trained and incardinated for the good of the whole Church."
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'Dumb Ox' just added this.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9155
It will be rather explosive if it is true.
The other three bishops recently sent to Bishop Fellay a joint letter expressing their total opposition to any deal and their complete unity of thought and action in the matter.
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I have been following this thread and other threads on the current SSPX/Rome issues on and off so I may have missed parts and may not have the full picture.
Who is "Dumb Ox" and why are they considered a reliable source of information? I am asking purely because I honestly want to know what qualifies them as reliable and not because I am having a jab at them.
Also who is "the Crow" and what is their story?
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:popcorn:
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People were claiming that Crow is Jєωιѕн
With respect even Krah never denied being Jєωιѕн but questions remain.
Huh?
I never thought the Jєωιѕнness of Krah was in question.
Is someone saying he is not Jєωιѕн?
Can anyone prove he is not Jєωιѕн?
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I would like to point out that you cannot call a Baptised person a Jew, unless you have clear proof that they are infiltrators.
A Jew is a member of the Jєωιѕн Cult. Either in Reference to the True Jews of old which the Catholic Church is the continuation thereof, or in reference to the evil synogogue of Satan that worships the Satanic тαℓмυd, which is generally the reference.
A Hebrew is a member of the Hebrew Race, which not all Jews belong to and many Catholics do.
A Judean is a member of the defunct Kingdom of Judea.
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I have been following this thread and other threads on the current SSPX/Rome issues on and off so I may have missed parts and may not have the full picture.
Who is "Dumb Ox" and why are they considered a reliable source of information? I am asking purely because I honestly want to know what qualifies them as reliable and not because I am having a jab at them.
Also who is "the Crow" and what is their story?
The same question can be asked of 'Henry V'.
No Dumb Ox, they are allegations. Although some, depending on your intent could be considered calumnious.
To take the second one, what constitutes friendship? The mere fact that Fr. Pfluger gave an interview to Wensierski? What is Fr. Pfluger collaborating in exactly? And by collaborator what definition do you intend:to work jointly with others or to assist an enemy.
The problem is Dumb Ox your 'sources' do not support your allegations. I'm just making the reader aware of that fact.
Who is 'Henry V' and how is he certain Dumb Ox is making allegations. It is Henry V who seems to be making allegations here.Again opening Ignis Ardens to prospect of legal action.
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What is Henry V intent here and motivation in stating what Dumb Ox wrote is "considered calumnious"?
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I said at the time for a lawyer to behave in such a way was hardly professional but as he was hardly out of his twenties (and still going to school!) there seems to be a new craze among young people to saturate the web with all kinds of links and associations in order to maximise the 'benefits' of networking. This is quite the opposite to keeping one's life strictly private so as not to harm one's good name and embarrass one's clients, family and friends. For Menzingen to employ the services of such questionable people may be a surprising relaxation of a code of practice to copy what is going on in other religious institutions or is the frequent problem of having favourites at court that acquire an aura of indispensibility.
Precise observation.
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The problem is Dumb Ox your 'sources' do not support your allegations. I'm just making the reader aware of that fact.
Henry V ignores facts so remarkable he wants readers to be aware of the facts. He is being quite nasty just as Ashmo was. Ashmo for several weeks insinuated I was involved in the New Right until Clare reluctantly explained to him I wasn't. It did ruin our family Christmas.
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I have been following this thread and other threads on the current SSPX/Rome issues on and off so I may have missed parts and may not have the full picture.
Who is "Dumb Ox" and why are they considered a reliable source of information? I am asking purely because I honestly want to know what qualifies them as reliable and not because I am having a jab at them.
Also who is "the Crow" and what is their story?
If I were Bishop Fellay, I wouldn't ignore a letter from the other three Bishops who wish the Society to remain faithful to its founder.
"the Crow" is a reference to the Menzingen lawyer.
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I'm just making the reader aware of that fact.
Which fact?
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I have been following this thread and other threads on the current SSPX/Rome issues on and off so I may have missed parts and may not have the full picture.
Who is "Dumb Ox" and why are they considered a reliable source of information? I am asking purely because I honestly want to know what qualifies them as reliable and not because I am having a jab at them.
Also who is "the Crow" and what is their story?
The same question can be asked of 'Henry V'.
No Dumb Ox, they are allegations. Although some, depending on your intent could be considered calumnious.
To take the second one, what constitutes friendship? The mere fact that Fr. Pfluger gave an interview to Wensierski? What is Fr. Pfluger collaborating in exactly? And by collaborator what definition do you intend:to work jointly with others or to assist an enemy.
The problem is Dumb Ox your 'sources' do not support your allegations. I'm just making the reader aware of that fact.
Who is 'Henry V' and how is he certain Dumb Ox is making allegations. It is Henry V who seems to be making allegations here.Again opening Ignis Ardens to prospect of legal action.
My question still remains unanswered.
For the record, I fully support H.E. Bishop Williamson and I am against any signing of any agreement with modernist Rome but what I do want to know as an observer of recent everts is:
Who is "Dumb Ox" and why are they considered a reliable source of information? I am asking purely because I honestly want to know what qualifies them as reliable and not because I am having a jab at them.
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I am assuming Dumb Ox has done a lot of research on this long-running soap opera and has come to some definite conclusions. There seems to be much reliance on what Society leaders and bishops said in the past about conciliar Rome and their statements are being used to predict their actions post-preamble. However, these leaders can say different things at different times it appears and the pro-agreement faction is using such uncertainty to minimise the weight of opposition. And saying something at a time when one is safe is quite different to putting oneself on the line. Time will tell whether brave words lead to brave actions.
The Crow is the alternative for Maximillian Krah whose name was banned on Ignis Ardens when it got cold feet over the disclosure of Krahgate, the antics of a Society lawyer and his bevaviour towards Bp. Williamson. Krahgate is still current because this unhealthy juxtaposition is still current. Much like the parallel Rome/Menzingen event.