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Author Topic: Menzingen Has Spoken  (Read 6484 times)

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Offline John Grace

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Menzingen Has Spoken
« on: April 17, 2012, 05:21:10 AM »
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  • Post from Dumb Ox on Ignis

    Menzingen Has Spoken, By Way of Der Spiegel

    http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9149
    Quote
    This important article was posted by Gabriel in another thread but its import was sadly lost amongst a barrage of facetious juvenility.

    The journalist, Wensierski, is a friend and collaborator of "He who shall remain nameless" and Fr. Pfluger and is undoubtedly well-informed as to the content of Menzingen's response to NewChurch.

    So here we have it - "The letter makes clear that conflicting positions on Vatican II is "not decisive" for the future of the Catholic Church. In short, the Society of St. Pius X is no longer demanding that the Vatican II reforms be repealed".

    Spiegel Online International
    04/16/2012

    Healing a Schism
    Vatican and Breakaway SSPX Seek Common Ground

    By Peter Wensierski in Rome


    For decades, the ultra-conservative Society of St. Pius X has been on the outside of the Catholic Church and looking in. Now, with Pope Benedict XVI intent on healing the schism, the group -- known as SSPX -- has written a letter that could pave the way for an agreement.

    For the pope's 85th birthday on Monday, his own brother showed up in Rome empty handed. But the brothers of the controversial Catholic splinter group Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) were more generous. They sent a letter -- and its contents may be the greatest gift yet to the papacy of Benedict XVI. The pope has long wanted to heal the schism with the SSPX and bring the conservative followers of the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre back into the fold. That hope may now become reality.

    The Catholic traditionalist Lefebvre founded the SSPX in 1969 in answer to the reforms pushed through by the Second Vatican Council, also known as Vatican II, earlier that decade. The group has grown to include tens of thousands of followers and hundreds of priests -- a "painful wound in the body of the church," Benedict XVI has said.

    Even when SSPX Bishop Richard Williamson made global headlines in 2009 by publicly denying the h0Ɩ0cαųst, the pope remained steadfast. Indeed, talks between the Vatican and the SSPX continued a short time later once Williamson, a native of Great Britain, had been marginalized. Now, it looks as though an agreement may be imminent.

    Not everyone in the church is likely to be pleased by such a rapprochement. Liberal and left-leaning Catholics have long been opposed to the idea of allowing the SSPX back into the fold, granting them the right to once again consecrate priests and letting them celebrate mass according to the old rites. The Bishops' Conference of France is likely to protest as well. But the German pope Josef Ratzinger is determined.

    Utmost Discretion

    The friendly letter from the SSPX to Benedict XVI arrived at the Vatican during Easter. In the Vatican's Secretariat of State -- the source of several docuмents that were leaked in recent months in the so-called "Vatileaks" scandal -- has classified the SSPX letter as secret and the issue is being handled with the utmost discretion. It is only to be made public following the pope's birthday celebrations.

    Sources say that the letter is currently being analyzed. Not everyone within the Secretariat is supportive of Benedict's desire to reunite with the SSPX. Currently, talks with the St. Pius brothers are focused on several outstanding details as well as the timing of the pending agreement.

    Following lengthy negotiations between the Catholic Church and the SSPX regarding a possible reunification, the Vatican had requested a response by Sunday. Specifically, the SSPX was to rethink its strict opposition to the Second Vatican Council -- which began 50 years ago this year -- as well as "several doctrinal principles and criteria relating to the interpretation of the Catholic doctrine."

    Cardinal William Levada, in his position as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, had communicated the ultimatum to SSPX leader Bishop Bernard Fellay during talks at the Vatican and asked him to once again reexamine its positions.

    The new letter is significant in that it seeks to tone down the conflict. Points of disagreement are no longer to be seen in terms of who is "more Catholic" than the other. The letter makes clear that conflicting positions on Vatican II is "not decisive" for the future of the Catholic Church. In short, the Society of St. Pius X is no longer demanding that the Vatican II reforms be repealed.

    'God's Will Be Done'

    Levada had demanded that Fellay sign a "doctrinal preamble" as a prerequisite for any further rapprochement. Yet despite what the SSPX calls Levada's "disagreeable tone," the breakaway traditionalists have "justifiable hopes for a satisfactory solution" -- particularly given that the healing of a division within the Church is at stake.

    The German Cardinal Josef Becker, an advisor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and a participant in the talks with the SSPX, said recently that it is difficult to find common ground in the positions held by the Catholic Church and the Society of St. Pius X. But, he added, each side must "try to understand" the other. He also said that the Church must re-examine all Vatican II texts to understand them from today's perspective.

    SSPX leader Fellay, for his part, recently made a request of his followers. In light of the letter he recently sent to the pope, he asked them to "double their fervor and magnanimity in prayer and sacrifice in these holy days and during the weeks following Easter, so that God's will be done."


    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 05:22:31 AM »
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  • In an exchange with a Facebook friend of Max Krah, 'Dumb Ox' stated

    Quote
    Certainly you have no idea, Alice.

    No idea at all.

    By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?

    She is a stunner isn't she!

    Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?

    Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.


    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 05:31:25 AM »
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  • Also Krah has recently 'liked' an event organised in America of whose Chairman is an ex Chief of Mossad. Meir Dagan.Yesh Sikuy! Israel's Hope's NY Activists

    I do hope those who mocked the Krahgate team will be making apologies as they were working for good of SSPX and Catholic Tradition.Those who supported the Menzingen lawyer despite everything have been had and must feel like fools.

    These are no "internet rumours".

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 05:53:35 AM »
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  • Clare for example had the audacity to say I was 'obsessed' and didn't find Krahgate 'edifying'.

    As as SSPX attendee, I do hope she will be asking questions of this. Krah is lawyer for a priestly society yet you read this. He is the board of a girls school.I do hope SSPX attendees speak to their clerics about this.

    Quote
    Certainly you have no idea, Alice.

    No idea at all.

    By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?

    She is a stunner isn't she!

    Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?

    Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.

    Offline Wessex

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 05:55:21 AM »
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  • Schhhh ..... the Crow is good at chasing legacies  ......  for the good of Society stomachs, if not their souls ......


    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 05:57:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    Schhhh ..... the Crow is good at chasing legacies  ......  for the good of Society stomachs, if not their souls ......


    We had Ashmolean and others on Ignis Ardens laugh at and mock the Krahgate team. They ought to hang their head in shame if they have any shame.

    The Krahgate team are certainly vindicated and thank God for 'William of Norwich'. It would be amazing if people still defend Krah and Fr Pfluger or even Bishop Fellay.  Bishop Fellay is either in on it or has been taken for a complete fool by those seeking to destroy the SSPX.

    Anything I have said or written about Krahgate, I am happy to go to court over it. I dealt with facts that can be proven. Also more importantly, I am happy to stand before God and make no apologies for involving myself in Krahgate. I'm not WON or Veritas1961 but read the file and realised I couldn't in conscience remain silent about it. There was a bigger picture and Tradition was at stake. I realised an enemy was at work, and couldn't sit by and allow the enemy to destroy.

    Offline Wessex

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 06:57:52 AM »
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  • Reading Rorate Caeli or Father Z, one sees this significant body of 'conservatives' who have no idea at what is at stake as far as the wider picture is concerned. Even though the world is collapsing around them, they berate and ridicule those not wanting to share in their smug air of resignation because it is much easier to sweep awkward issues under the carpet than confront them. A familiar pattern in human affairs seen everywhere including on trad sites. Which makes it much harder for whistle blowers because former colleagues may turn against you, having no stomach for the fight. One does not know how people turn out when tested.

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 07:24:03 AM »
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  • Do the critics of the Krahgate team not realise facts can be proven and material substantiated?

    Why is a Society employee 'liking' "photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?"

    This is outrageous and a scandal. It shouldn't be dismissed. We give this priestly society our money to finance our chapels and their priests.

    This Max Krah is on company boards with Society priests. I do question their judgement and why this man was hired?


    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 07:42:05 AM »
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  • I do hope people will understand the 'concerns' as an earlier 'like' of Krah was 'DesignerHeels'. This has been since removed from his 'likes'.

    http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=printer&t=15187
    Quote
    Maximilian Krah (Facebook)

    Quote:
    Activities and Interests
    Other Columbia University, Thomas de Maizière, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, Angela Merkel, London Business School, KDStV Chursachsen, 116. Mittelschule Dresden, Kreuzgymnasium, Columbia University, Columbia Business School Executive MBA Program, LinkedIn, Mittelstandsvereinigung der CDU Dresden, CDU Dresden, Hotel Sacher, Josef Ackermann, Agent Provocateur, Joachim Gauck, Exzellenz für Dresden, Junge Union Dresden, Junge Union Sachsen & Niederschlesien, Lufthansa, Lufthansa Senator Status, The Oratory of S Philip Neri in London (Brompton Oratory), Pushkin Cafe, Russian Ministry for Economic Development, Sankt Petersburg, Moscow, Patrick Schreiber, GUT JAIDHOF, DesignerHeels, vorne-sitzen.de, Ipad 2, Boris Johnson, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, EINSTEIN KAFFEE Dresden, Bobby Jindal, Friedrich Merz, Columbia Business School, Russian Standard Deutschland, gerne-katholisch.de, EB&Flow, CDU Dresden - Ortsverband Zschachwitz, CallaJet.de (Privatjet Charter Broker), German Embassy Washington, CDU-Fraktion Sachsen, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Henryk M. Broder, The Economist, Support German Troops, Donald Rumsfeld, Dmitri Shostakovich, Wir wollen Guttenberg zurück, DER SPIEGEL, Nicolas Sarkozy, Royal Opera House, Semperoper, FÜR Stuttgart 21, Benedikt XVI, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung, SPAM, CDU Hamburg, EMBA Global Asia 2012and 47 more

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 07:46:58 AM »
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  • This is what 'Agent Provocateur' is
    Quote
    Welcome to the official fan page of luxury lingerie brand, Agent Provocateur.

    "The sexiest website in the world", Vogue.
    Company Overview The world famous luxury lingerie brand has stores across the fashion centres of the world, including in London, New York, Vancouver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Paris, Vienna, Berlin and more. The first shop was opened on London's Broadwick Street in the Soho district in 1994.
    Mission Agent Provocateur believes that passion and intimacy should be indulged, and that exploring your inner desires and fantasies profoundly enriches your life.

    Agent Provocateur lingerie is an opulent range of inspirational creations, designed to intensify life’s pleasures and unlock your innermost desires. Our elegant ranges, designed with both the boardroom and the boudoir in mind, ensure that women can be sexy and professional as the mood takes them.  
    Products Designer lingerie - Bras - Knickers - Suspender belts - Corsetry - Bodysuits - Nightwear - Hosiery - Garters - Bridal lingerie - Swimwear - Perfume - Beauty products - Massage oil - Pasties - Whips - Gloves -


    Why is a man on board of a Catholic girls school liking such items?


    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 08:24:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    In an exchange with a Facebook friend of Max Krah, 'Dumb Ox' stated

    Quote
    Certainly you have no idea, Alice.

    No idea at all.

    By the way, Alice; as you publicly admit that you are a Facebook Friend of The Crow, and as you also raise the subject of "invitation to 'Like'" items posted on his Facebook account, I trust that a fine Catholic lady such as yourself will not mind me asking whether, following The Crow, you also 'liked' the full-frontal photograph of the naked lady posing on the hotel balcony?

    She is a stunner isn't she!

    Do you wonder, as I wonder, whether the nuns and teenage Catholic girls at the SSPX school in Germany that The Crow manages should be warned about The Crow's Facebook "likings" of such things as the "erotic sadomasochistic" film, as Nine-and-a-Half Weeks is described at Wikipedia, photographs of naked women posing for the camera, or even the Agent Provocateur "sexy" Lingerie company that advertises "whips"?

    Should we not tell them, Alice? The Crow is a ""really nice guy", after all.


    It's very disturbing if Krah is still involved in this school as this grave matter was highlighted over a year ago. Has the German District and the school done anything? It's not acceptable. Has Bishop Fellay, the Superior General of the SSPX done anything? Any reply from Fr Laisney who involved himself in Krahgate by stating "Maximilian Krah is one of our faithful"?Fr Laisney's comments raised more questions than answers


    Offline bernadette

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 09:10:22 AM »
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  • Through time and the power they hold (threats of lawsuits etc..), the sspx managed to weather the storm of the Krahgate scandal....now, as far as sspx faithful are concerned...many have simply forgotten, the scandal and its implications have been dulled in the memories of many, some have chosen blind obedience to +Fellay and a 'head in the sand' mentality, and some opt to forget and ignore the scandal, by their own choice, regardless of the facts.

    Time heals all wounds...and dulls the memory!

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 09:13:13 AM »
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  • If you follow this link you will see his name Herr RA Maximilian Krah

    http://www.theresiengymnasium.de/ueber-uns/organisationsstruktur.html

    You will find contact details for the school here.

    http://www.theresiengymnasium.de/kontakt/adressen.html

    info@st-theresia-gym.de

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 09:24:11 AM »
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  • Many thanks to 'Dumb Ox' for bringing this to our attention. A very disturbing episode for the SSPX. Krah isn't even a competent lawyer so why is he so influential within the Society? Who hired him and why? They are valid questions. He is an employee of this specific priestly society.

    Offline John Grace

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    Menzingen Has Spoken
    « Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 09:40:41 AM »
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  • Google translation.

    http://www.lectiobrevior.de/2012/03/wie-man-wachst-ohne-groer-zu-werden.html
    Quote
    Maximilian Krah said ...
    Dear Mr. Schneider, the SSPX is since it was founded in 1970 as a sect abused, what has so far at least slowing its spread most, but not prevented. Why the change in the event that the negotiations drag on, should be is not clear. And, neither Rome nor Menzingen have an interest to cancel the contact. So it's just a question. Agreement or further negotiations now I hope to reach an agreement. There is no "unique selling proposition", because the charm of the SSPX is not in the canonical unsettled situation - which is more of a burden, albeit a portable - but in the traditional pastoral care, catechesis and liturgy. The groups that operate here like the SSPX, but are regularized, have all the feed, the trouble with Rome, there is no need for it. But other groups are holding significantly less than the SSPX, which is the focus of the whole "traditional sector" and therefore, logically, for the entire "field" has held the spiritual lead.



    14th March 2012 15:05