Author Topic: New Bishops Instructed by Francis  (Read 833 times)

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Offline Maria Regina

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New Bishops Instructed by Francis
« on: October 01, 2017, 04:37:40 PM »
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    New bishops undergo Bergoglian orientation
     Louie September 15, 2017 76 Comments
    Yesterday, Francis addressed a gathering of newly consecrated bishops on pilgrimage in Rome. In reality, it was a seminar on how to apply the pastoral pearls of wisdom found in Amoris Laetitia.
     

    The theme of the address (available on the Holy See website in Italian) was “discernment,” which, properly understood (i.e., in a Catholic sense), is inseparable from the gifts of the Holy Spirit; wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.
    The Bergoglian model, not surprisingly, is rather different.
    Francis, Vicar of You-Know-Who, began his seminar by paying lip service to the Catholic understanding, but then, in serpentine fashion, he masterfully drew the new bishops’ attention directly to where he really wants it to be – on man; ultimately leading them to believe that discernment is a gift that the sheep bestow upon the shepherd!
    Here’s the segue:
    Discernment, therefore, is born in the heart and mind of the bishop through his prayer when he contacts people and situations entrusted to him with the Divine Word pronounced by the Spirit. [Emphasis in original]
    In other words, it’s the people, stupid.
    Francis went on:
    Discernment is the grace of the Spirit to the holy faithful people of God, who constitutes it a prophetic people, endowed with the sense of faith and that spiritual instinct that makes it capable of sentire cum Ecclesia. It is a gift received in the midst of the People and is oriented towards its salvation. Since the Spirit already dwells in the heart of the faithful, the apostolic faith, beatitude, righteousness, and evangelical spirit are not strangers to them since Baptism. [Emphasis in original]
    The bishop, according to Francis, “is not the self-sufficient father,’” rather, he is “called to live his own discernment of Pastor as a member of the People of God at the service of the koinonìa (fellowship).”
    Repeatedly throughout the discourse, Francis encouraged… wait for it… “dialogue” – in particular, with the faithful.
    The Bishop’s discernment is always a community action, which does not disregard the richness of the opinion … of the People of God … In serene dialogue, he is not afraid to share, and even sometimes change, his discernment with others … with lay faithful , because they retain the “sense of smell” of the true infallibility of the faith that resides in the Church. [Emphasis in original]
    Did you get that?
    It’s not the venerable councils of the Church, Sacred Scripture, or the constant witness of tradition wherein “true infallibility” resides; rather, it is in the people.
    From there, Francis grew bolder in cautioning the new bishops not to rely on the aforementioned means by which the true Faith is transmitted, saying:
    I therefore invite you to cultivate an attitude of listening, growing in the freedom to give up your point of view … The mission you are waiting for is not to bring your own ideas and projects, nor solutions that are abstractly designed by those who consider the Church a home garden [an expression presumably intended to mean that it supplies all that is needed].
    He continued:
    Discerning therefore means humility and obedience … Obedience to the Gospel, the ultimate standard; to the Magisterium, who keeps it; to the norms of the universal Church, which serve Him; and to the concrete situation of people, for whom you want nothing other than to draw from the treasure of the Church as most fruitful for their salvation.
    Notice two things…
    One, the Gospel according to Bergoglio is but the “ultimate standard;” another way of saying (as he did of Christian marriage numerous times in Amoris Laetitia) the “ideal” not infrequently unattainable.
    Secondly, notice how the Devil works: Rather than saying, Oh, don’t bother conforming yourself and your flock in obedience to Scripture and Tradition, he tells the bishops that they are bound to obey “the concrete situation of people.”
    And what about those times when “the concrete situation of people” is out of step with “the norms of the universal Church”?
    Francis answers:
    Discernment is a remedy for the immobility of “it has always been done this way”… It’s a creative process that does not just apply patterns [applicare schemi – fit into preformed molds]. It is an antidote against rigidity, because the same solutions are not valid everywhere.
    Those “same solutions” is a reference to the bi-millennial practice of the Church and the teachings that undergird it, which is presumably why it is so important for the shepherd to turn to the lay faithful for an explanation as to how things ought to be.
    Francis goes on:
    It is always, today and forever, the Risen Lord that forces him [the shepherd] not to resign himself to the repetition of the past and to have the courage to wonder if the proposals of yesterday are still evangelically valid.
    In other words, make room for the God of Surprises – me!
    Do not be imprisoned by the nostalgia of having only one answer to apply in all cases.
    There’s much more of the same to be found in the text, but presumably you get the picture.
    As the address makes perfectly plain, one of the strategies for ensuring that the Amoris Laetitia disease spreads across not only the globe, but the generations, is to inject newly minted bishops with copious amounts of its virus so they may freely dispense it within their home dioceses.
    And the countdown to correction continues…
    It seems as if the Pope is preparing these Bishops to accept a false union with the Ecumenical Patriarch because within Orthodoxy infallibility resides in the entire church: laity, monastics, and clergy.

    HUGE problem here: If the Roman Catholic faithful, monastics, and clergy have been dumbed down, and neither know their faith nor what constitutes a moral and saintly life, then how can they possess infallibility?

    https://akacatholic.com/new-bishops-undergo-bergoglian-orientation/

    Quote
    The Bishop’s discernment is always a community action, which does not disregard the richness of the opinion … of the People of God … In serene dialogue, he is not afraid to share, and even sometimes change, his discernment with otherswith lay faithful , because they retain the “sense of smell” of the true infallibility of the faith that resides in the Church.
    Also notice, that the Bishops may change his discernment ... Does this mean continuing revolution in the words of Cardinal Mahony?

    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
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  • Any union with the Ecumenical Patriarch (EP) of Constantinople would be a FALSE UNION because it would open the door to abortion, divorce, contraception, etc.

    This "Green Patriarch" is more concerned with the environment and saving whales than he is with saving children from abortion and broken marriages.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 04:46:54 PM »
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  • Essentially the same, and about as relevant, as this with all due ma'am, and what a school girl giddy looking lot they are.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 04:52:56 PM »
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  • Essentially the same, and about as relevant, as this with all due ma'am, and what a school girl giddy looking lot they are.
    Francis is leading the way for a changing Protestantized New Church based on the so-called discernment (whims) of laity and clergy -- a church that no longer follows Christ and His unchanging teachings to the Apostles for all times and for all peoples.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 05:04:38 PM »
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  • Francis is leading the way for a changing New Church based on the so-called discernment (whims) of laity and clergy -- a church that no longer follows Christ and His unchanging teachings to the Apostles for all times and for all peoples.
    So, what's new about that ma'am?

    Perhaps I should read this as "Francis continues to...", in which case the simplest response to that would be "and?", which is another way of asking the previous in this case.
    I'm trying to appreciate and understand what you at least try to say ma'am, but at this point this seems to be a case of someone noting ice in the arctic.

    The one point that you either don't seem to grasp, or perhaps tacitly reject, maybe a confusion though definitely a chronic failure to make distinctions shows itself in the "...no longer..." bit.

    No? How can THE Church NOT follow  "... Christ and His unchanging teachings to the Apostles for all times and for all peoples"?

    What you seem to propose is a divorce between Christ and Bride ma'am.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #5 on: October 01, 2017, 05:21:48 PM »
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  • So, what's new about that ma'am?

    Perhaps I should read this as "Francis continues to...", in which case the simplest response to that would be "and?", which is another way of asking the previous in this case.
    I'm trying to appreciate and understand what you at least try to say ma'am, but at this point this seems to be a case of someone noting ice in the arctic.

    The one point that you either don't seem to grasp, or perhaps tacitly reject, maybe a confusion though definitely a chronic failure to make distinctions shows itself in the "...no longer..." bit.

    No? How can THE Church NOT follow  "... Christ and His unchanging teachings to the Apostles for all times and for all peoples"?

    What you seem to propose is a divorce between Christ and Bride ma'am.
    The New Church of Vatican II is not the Bride of Christ. These are the End Times when wickedness will prevail.
    In fact, we have been living in the End Times since the Ascension of Christ as He can come at any time as a thief in the night.
    The faithful remnant, those who have separated from the New Heretical Church, and who follow Christ and His unchanging teachings, is the Bride of Christ.

    Come Lord Jesus! Come quickly and save us.  Most Holy Theotokos, beg thy Son and our God to save us.
    All ye holy angels and saints, intercede to God for us that we may be saved.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #6 on: October 01, 2017, 05:25:19 PM »
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  • The New Church of Vatican II is not the Bride of Christ.
    We have been living in the End Times since the Ascension of Christ as He can come at any time as a thief in the night.
    The faithful remnant, those who have separated from the New Heretical Church, and who follow Christ and His unchanging teachings, is the Bride of Christ.

    Come Lord Jesus! Come quickly and save us.  Most Holy Theotokos, beg thy Son and our God to save us.
    All ye holy angels and saints, intercede to God for us that we may be saved.
    Then what were you talking about, and why ma'am?

    WHY do you keep calling him "pope"?

    How do you regard the Eastern, so-called, "Orthodox" ma'am?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 05:28:22 PM »
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  • Then what were you talking about, and why ma'am?

    WHY do you keep calling him "pope"?

    How do you regard the Eastern, so-called, "Orthodox" ma'am?
    I have plainly stated that the EP is a false shepherd. To join in unity with this man would lead a lot of good but uneducated Catholics into confusion.

    Most of the time, I have been using "Francis" to refer to the man who calls himself "Pope."
    Perhaps I should start using his surname, but that would show disrespect.

    Who are you? Are you a priest?
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 05:34:17 PM »
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  • I have plainly stated that the EP is a false shepherd.

    > Which means what exactly ma'am?
    > No, or (any other response = "yes"), is Francis THE Pope?


    To join in unity

    > Meaning?

     with this man would lead a lot of good but uneducated Catholics into confusion.

    >Is that all? They don't seem to be alone in this regard.

    Who are you? Are you a priest?

    >You ask much, and what little that you do answer is rarely clear and unequivocal; why?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 05:36:04 PM »
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  • I have plainly stated that the EP is a false shepherd. To join in unity with this man would lead a lot of good but uneducated Catholics into confusion.

    Most of the time, I have been using "Francis" to refer to the man who calls himself "Pope."
    Perhaps I should start using his surname, but that would show disrespect.

    >I see that you've edited. He's either the pope, or he isn't, and exactly precisely what respect would he be due if he were not?
    >What about those who rightly bear said name? Is S. Francis of Assisi honored thereby?


    Who are you? Are you a priest?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 05:44:45 PM »
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  • Who are you? Are you a priest?


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    >You ask much, and what little that you do answer is rarely clear and unequivocal; why?

    If you can ask personal questions, but refuse to answer questions, so can I.

    In fact, you repeatedly tend to toss in questions that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    Are you a female or a feminized male? Men tend to stay on topic, but you do not.

    I gather from your own equivocal comment above that you are indeed a New Church priest or an ex-priest (Jesuit) as I detect a lot of theological and philosophical knowledge, including Marxism, with your unveiled comment that religion is the opium of the masses.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 05:47:26 PM »
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  • Who are you? Are you a priest?


    If you can ask personal questions, but refuse to answer questions, so can I.

    In fact, you repeatedly tend to toss in questions that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    Are you a female or a feminized male? Men tend to stay on topic, but you do not.

    I gather from your own equivocal comment above that you are indeed a New Church priest or an ex-priest (Jesuit) as I detect a lot of theological and philosophical knowledge, including Marxism, with your unveiled comment that religion is the opium of the masses.
    Tried again, and more fool me.

    Take care ma'am.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 06:58:53 PM »
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  • Quote
    Quote
    The Bishop’s discernment is always a community action, which does not disregard the richness of the opinion … of the People of God … In serene dialogue, he is not afraid to share, and even sometimes change, his discernment with otherswith lay faithful , because they retain the “sense of smell” of the true infallibility of the faith that resides in the Church.
    Also notice, that the Bishops may change their discernment under the influence of the laity  ...
    Does this mean "continuing revolution" in the words of the former Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles?

    Some of my friends in the Vatican II NewChurch act like the three monkeys:
    Hear no evil.
    See no evil.
    Say no evil.

    They are lacking in discernment because they will not see nor hear evil. How can they advise their bishops?
    They have been told by their Jesuit confessors to put on blinders and never judge or see heresies, and certainly not to be holier than the Pope.
    In addition, they are being told to stay in the NewChurch because it is better to be part of the solution than part of the problem.

    So, I get phone calls from them, begging me to return to the NO Mass and urging me to join Opus Dei.

    So, now they have become part of the BIGGER problem, which is the increasing secularization and modernization of the Vatican II New Church.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #13 on: October 12, 2017, 02:13:41 AM »
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  • http://www.francisquotes.com/

    All these thoughts are being instilled into the new bishops of NewChurch.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: New Bishops Instructed by Francis
    « Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 09:21:05 AM »
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  • QuoteAlso notice, that the Bishops may change their discernment under the influence of the laity  ...
    Does this mean "continuing revolution" in the words of the former Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles?

    Some of my friends in the Vatican II NewChurch act like the three monkeys:
    Hear no evil.
    See no evil.
    Say no evil.

    They are lacking in discernment because they will not see nor hear evil. How can they advise their bishops?
    They have been told by their Jesuit confessors to put on blinders and never judge or see heresies, and certainly not to be holier than the Pope.
    In addition, they are being told to stay in the NewChurch because it is better to be part of the solution than part of the problem.

    So, I get phone calls from them, begging me to return to the NO Mass and urging me to join Opus Dei.

    So, now they have become part of the BIGGER problem, which is the increasing secularization and modernization of the Vatican II New Church.
    Add another heresy to the Francis haystack. The discernment of any given Bishop and more particularly that of the Faithful does not contribute to or determine the infallibility of the Church. This foolish idea is a byproduct of the Vatican II heresy of the Church's Tradition issuing forth from the ruminations and ponderings of the Faithful which was promoted by John Paul II when he accussed Lefebvre of having an "incomplete" understanding of Tradition because he did not subscribe to this heretical conciliar idea.
    Getting Traditional Bishops and clerics to identify and conclude as to this man's status is harder than getting Russia to be consecrated. ;)


     

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