Author Topic: Martin Luther - "Witness to Jesus Christ" (Read 932 times)

Pelele · « **on:** December 05, 2013, 06:22:33 PM »

The Novus Ordo sect has been at it with the Lutherans "dialoguing" since Vatican 2, since 1965 at least, and has had many so-called "Joint Declarations" with them already; the 1999 one on Justification isn't the only one of course.

In 1983 they did this on Luther himself!

Martin Luther Witness to Jesus Christ

I have a novus ordo uncle who says we sedevacantists are "little Luthers" and that we are just "following Luther's footsteps", but little does he know what his sect has done with the Lutherans!

He is so filled with pride and arrogance and is such a blind fool that he is of course oblivious to all these Joint Declarations with the Lutherans, he isn't even aware of the 1999 one on justification.

He doesn't even know his "popes" have gone to the Lutheran temple in Rome and praised the heresiarch either.

He wants to speak with me about sedevacantism because he of course thinks im just crazy and that he is a real "believer" and that i am just totally wrong, but he has no idea what's coming at him; I already put the JD of 1999 on paper and i have photos of his "popes" going to the Lutheran Temple and i will get more things on the Lutherans, and throw it all in his face.

By the way, has the Novus Ordo done the same with all other false religions? I know they have done Joint Declarations with the Eastern Schismatics, but have they done so even with pagan religions?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:16:34 PM »

Indeed.

I once put together a lengthy list of what I called "Novus Ordo Paradoxes" (=hypocrisies).

Here are a couple of the relevant ones:

It's schismatic to be out of communion with those in communion with schismatics.

Religious Liberty for all ... except for those who are against Religious Liberty.

Schismatics serve Our Lord, except those schismatics who don't believe that schismatics serve Our Lord.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:21:08 PM »

Another one I recall from the top of my head:

In the Conciliar Church, it's OK to "ad lib" the Mass however you'd like for pastoral purposes ... except of course if you happen to "ad lib" something that closely resembles the Tridentine Mass (that's forbidden).

Pelele · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:39:45 PM »

These things are just over-the-top abominable. I can't believe the times we are living in.

The idea of non-Catholics like Lutherans and Anglicans and Schismatics converting to the Church and abandoning their errors is just completely non-existent and has been completely thrown in the garbage and it just doesn't even figure in the minds of these APOSTATE MODERNISTS.

What in the world is going to happen i wonder...if Sodom and Gomorra burned just for sodomy, imagine what will happen with all the things this sect has done and all the things that are going on...

Well, truly, the entire world will be burned up.

Pelele · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2013, 08:05:47 PM »

This all makes me realize all the more how the EENS dogma is, in a sense, the most important one of them all, because once you thow it out of the table, everything else crumbles and that is the reason they can do all these things in the first place.

If there is salvation outside the Church, then you can have a "common understanding" on the other dogmas like the Trinity and the Incarnation and then that's good enough and they don't have to renounce their errors or submit to the Church anymore.

Pelele · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2013, 12:41:35 AM »

Has anyone actually read the link i posted? It's a total hagiography of Luther! Amazing!

Cantarella · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2013, 01:26:55 AM »

How could anyone respect Luther and his doctrines? this man is the responsible for the damnation of millions of souls. This heretic desecrated the Holy Bible and his only goal in life was the destruction of the Catholic Church. He did this by trying to destruct the Sacrifice of the Mass. Luther rejected the presence of Our Lord by transubstantiation. Luther denied the divine institution of priesthood and hierarchy as well as the intercession of the saints. Luther denied that Christ Our Lord founded a visible Church and also taught that everyone could interpret the Bible according to his own whim. He also denied the concept of free will, so whether a person is good or bad is not his own fault but God's.! According to the immoral Luther, no sin can damn a person except unbelief alone!

Nadir · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2013, 03:32:30 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

He also denied the concept of free will, so whether a person is good or bad is not his own fault but God's.! According to the immoral Luther, no sin can damn a person except unbelief alone!

I was talking with a poor unfortunate person under the influence of Luther. He made the statement that it is impossible for man not to sin. When I challenged him he went on to make the most irrational statements. Like if my husband was defending me from an intruder wielding a knife in our own home and he happened to unintentionally kill the madman, my husband would be guilty of sin. My husband has no right to protect me! This is devilish stuff. Of course if you must sin then sin your hardest - that's the policy of these people.

2Vermont · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2013, 04:23:30 AM »

Didn't Benedict XVI participate in Lutheran services not too long ago?

Also, isn't the VII church planning on celebrating the anniversary of the Reformation?

Stubborn · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2013, 05:15:08 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Indeed.

I once put together a lengthy list of what I called "Novus Ordo Paradoxes" (=hypocrisies).

Here are a couple of the relevant ones:

It's schismatic to be out of communion with those in communion with schismatics.

Religious Liberty for all ... except for those who are against Religious Liberty.

Schismatics serve Our Lord, except those schismatics who don't believe that schismatics serve Our Lord.

This gem from Fenton: "Those within the Church by desire have not obtained the membership they desire as there is no need to desire what you have obtained."

Stubborn · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2013, 05:19:32 AM »

Quote from: Pelele

This all makes me realize all the more how the EENS dogma is, in a sense, the most important one of them all, because once you thow it out of the table, everything else crumbles and that is the reason they can do all these things in the first place.

If there is salvation outside the Church, then you can have a "common understanding" on the other dogmas like the Trinity and the Incarnation and then that's good enough and they don't have to renounce their errors or submit to the Church anymore.

Well said Pelele!

Fr. Wathen puts it like this:

The Doctrine of Exclusive Salvation is described as fundamental or "foundational" to Catholic theology. It is called the "Dogma of Faith," because, of a truth, unless a person accepts it in all its momentous absoluteness, he really does not accept the Catholic Faith, howsoever he protests that he does. Conversely, he who dilutes this doctrine to any degree, so radically distorts the Faith that he renders it null and void, and his own faith in the bargain. For he who denies this doctrine makes Catholicity hardly more than a nicety, as if membership in the Church were like the first-class compartment on a commercial airliner, in which the majority of others will arrive at the same destination, really none the worse for their second-class transport.