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Author Topic: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group  (Read 2722 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
« on: August 02, 2022, 10:23:50 PM »
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  • Both Opus Dei... all the way



    “Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jєωs




    https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #1 on: August 02, 2022, 10:53:13 PM »
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  • :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #2 on: August 03, 2022, 01:32:06 AM »
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  • December 2020! we've done this!
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #3 on: August 03, 2022, 05:14:41 AM »
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  • This is old news, but this is what bothers me about Vigano. He needs to publicly reject ecuмenism and VII completely for me to hop on board the Vigano train. 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #4 on: August 03, 2022, 05:18:45 AM »
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  • Both Opus Dei... all the way



    “Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jєωs




    https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/
    https://tinyurl.com/37t8ewmj

    Fixed the link for you Incred.  I agree that , although "old news", this [as well as Vigano's previous letter to a rabbi], has never been sufficiently resolved.  He seems solid regarding the Faith in many other ways, but this still bothers me. 
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #5 on: August 03, 2022, 05:22:52 AM »
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  • https://tinyurl.com/37t8ewmj

    Fixed the link for you Incred.  I agree that , although "old news", this [as well as Vigano's previous letter to a rabbi], has never been sufficiently resolved.  He seems solid regarding the Faith in many other ways, but this still bothers me.

    This is how I feel as well.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #6 on: August 03, 2022, 07:26:23 AM »
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  • He needs to publicly reject ecuмenism and VII completely for me to hop on board the Vigano train.

    I don't understand this comment.  He most certainly has COMPLETELY rejected V2 (along with Ecuмenism and a whole slough of errors in V2 that he called out very articulately).  He did this a couple years ago in his response to Bishop Schneider after +Schneider had argued that V2 merely needed to be corrected.  +Vigano responded by saying that it's radically defective, called out all the errors, and argued that it needs to be thrown out and cannot be rescued with some corrections.  So what do you mean by rejecting ecuмenism and V2 completely?

    This allegation that he participated in some "ecuмenical prayer service" is nonsense.  He merely gave a video speech to the crowd there and did not participate in any common prayer with anyone.  One might quibble about things as Novus Ordo Watch did in its hit piece, like about how he addressed the crowd as "brothers and sisters," but there's a natural sense in which all human beings are brothers and sisters.  In his aforementioned repudiation of V2, he specifically called out ecuмenism and religious indifferentism and he closed the letter with a citation of the Church's dogma that there's no salvation outside the Church.

    https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2020-06-09.html

    Here's how he closes the letter:
    Quote
    Last Sunday, the Church celebrated the Most Holy Trinity, and in the Breviary it offers us the recitation of the Symbolum Athanasianum, now outlawed by the conciliar liturgy and already reduced to only two occasions in the liturgical reform of 1962. The first words of that now-disappeared Symbolum remain inscribed in letters of gold: “Quicuмque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est ut teneat Catholicam fidem; quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit – Whosoever wishes to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; For unless a person shall have kept this faith whole and inviolate, without doubt he shall eternally perish.”

    This doesn't seem particularly ecuмenical to me.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #7 on: August 03, 2022, 07:54:25 AM »
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  • I don't understand this comment.  He most certainly has COMPLETELY rejected V2 (along with Ecuмenism and a whole slough of errors in V2 that he called out very articulately).  He did this a couple years ago in his response to Bishop Schneider after +Schneider had argued that V2 merely needed to be corrected.  +Vigano responded by saying that it's radically defective, called out all the errors, and argued that it needs to be thrown out and cannot be rescued with some corrections.  So what do you mean by rejecting ecuмenism and V2 completely?

    This allegation that he participated in some "ecuмenical prayer service" is nonsense.  He merely gave a video speech to the crowd there and did not participate in any common prayer with anyone.  One might quibble about things as Novus Ordo Watch did in its hit piece, like about how he addressed the crowd as "brothers and sisters," but there's a natural sense in which all human beings are brothers and sisters.  In his aforementioned repudiation of V2, he specifically called out ecuмenism and religious indifferentism and he closed the letter with a citation of the Church's dogma that there's no salvation outside the Church.

    https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2020-06-09.html

    Here's how he closes the letter:
    This doesn't seem particularly ecuмenical to me.
    Oh stop with the "hit piece" verbiage.  Your hatred of NOW blinds you.  NOW made it very clear that it was totally with Vigano for a lot that he wrote/did prior to this event.

    What makes matters worse is that Vigano is not simply your average, run-of-the-mill Novus Ordo bishop who simply doesn’t know better. Quite the contrary — he has demonstrated that he has an astute grasp of real Catholic doctrine and the corresponding errors of Vatican II. We recall that in his spectacular condemnation of the Conciliar religion, dated June 9, 2020, the former nuncio lamented:

    Quote
    Quote Together with numerous Council Fathers, we thought of ecuмenism as a process, an invitation that calls dissidents to the one Church of Christ, idolaters and pagans to the one True God, and the Jєωιѕн people to the promised Messiah. But from the moment it was theorized in the conciliar commissions, ecuмenism was configured in a way that was in direct opposition to the doctrine previously expressed by the Magisterium.
    We have thought that certain excesses were only an exaggeration of those who allowed themselves to be swept up in enthusiasm for novelty; we sincerely believed that seeing John Paul II surrounded by charmers-healers, buddhist monks, imams, rabbis, protestant pastors and other heretics gave proof of the Church’s ability to summon people together in order to ask God for peace, while the authoritative example of this action initiated a deviant succession of pantheons that were more or less official, even to the point of seeing Bishops carrying the unclean idol of the pachamama on their shoulders, sacrilegiously concealed under the pretext of being a representation of sacred motherhood.
    But if the image of an infernal divinity was able to enter into Saint Peter’s, this is part of a cresecendo which the other side foresaw from the beginning. Numerous practicing Catholics, and perhaps also a majority of Catholic clergy, are today convinced that the Catholic Faith is no longer necessary for eternal salvation; they believe that the One and Triune God revealed to our fathers is the same as the god of Mohammed. Already twenty years ago we heard this repeated from pulpits and episcopal cathedrae, but recently we hear it being affirmed with emphasis even from the highest Throne.
    We know well that, invoking the saying in Scripture Littera enim occidit, spiritus autem vivificat [The letter brings death, but the spirit gives life (2 Cor 3:6)], the progressives and modernists astutely knew how to hide equivocal expressions in the conciliar texts, which at the time appeared harmless to most but that today are revealed in their subversive value. It is the method employed in the use of the phrase subsistit in: saying a half-truth not so much as not to offend the interlocutor (assuming that is licit to silence the truth of God out of respect for His creature), but with the intention of being able to use the half-error that would be instantly dispelled if the entire truth were proclaimed. Thus “Ecclesia Christi subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica” does not specify the identity of the two, but the subsistence of one in the other and, for consistency, also in other churches: here is the opening to interconfessional celebrations, ecuмenical prayers, and the inevitable end of any need for the Church in the order of salvation, in her unicity, and in her missionary nature.
    (“Abp.” Carlo Maria Viganò, Letter of June 9, 2020; printed in full at Life Site; italics given; underlining added.)
    Similarly, in a Sep. 1, 2020 letter to Catholic Family News contributor Stephen Kokx, Vigano asserted firmly that “it is clear that no admixture is possible with those who propose adulterated doctrines of the conciliar ideological manifesto….”

    So, the question now has to be asked: What happened to all that?! Now he is mixing not only with regular Vatican II believers but also with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jєωs, labeling them children of God, children of light, part of the church, and soldiers in God’s army!
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #8 on: August 03, 2022, 08:46:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    This allegation that he participated in some "ecuмenical prayer service" is nonsense.  He merely gave a video speech to the crowd there and did not participate in any common prayer with anyone.  One might quibble about things as Novus Ordo Watch did in its hit piece, like about how he addressed the crowd as "brothers and sisters," but there's a natural sense in which all human beings are brothers and sisters.  In his aforementioned repudiation of V2, he specifically called out ecuмenism and religious indifferentism and he closed the letter with a citation of the Church's dogma that there's no salvation outside the Church.
    Right, it was not an ecuмenical prayer service, but a gathering of various americans (all of different faiths), praying for their country.  Big difference.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #9 on: August 03, 2022, 08:48:18 AM »
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  • Oh stop with the "hit piece" verbiage.  Your hatred of NOW blinds you.

    Utter nonsense.  I have no "hatred of NOW".  I like some of what they write and have posted some of their stuff.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #10 on: August 03, 2022, 08:53:55 AM »
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  • Quote
    What makes matters worse is that Vigano is not simply your average, run-of-the-mill Novus Ordo bishop who simply doesn’t know better.
    "Know better" implies that something was done wrong.  There was nothing wrong about his speech or participation in that political event.  Just because many political leaders are protestant and just because they get in front of a mic and say a prayer (none of which is mandatory), is not a "prayer service".  :facepalm:



    Quote
    Now he is mixing not only with regular Vatican II believers but also with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jєωs, labeling them children of God, children of light, part of the church, and soldiers in God’s army!
    What does "mixing" mean?  Again, your implication is that this was a religious service.  You fail to distinguish between an organized religious meeting and a political rally where prayers are said.  Further, there is nothing wrong with protestant prayers or a catholic praying aloud to God, using "personal words" (however cringe and sappy these words may be).  There are church-approved prayers (which are best) and then there is just simple, human, prayers from the heart.


    The 2nd point is, if you people haven't figured it out, WE ARE AT WAR!  It's people who believe in God vs the global satanists.  Yes, in a sense, anyone who is half-way trying to do good and who is trying to uphold the natural law is on our side.  It's that bad.  We need all the prayers we can get.  "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".  


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #11 on: August 03, 2022, 10:55:45 AM »
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  • Utter nonsense.  I have no "hatred of NOW".  I like some of what they write and have posted some of their stuff.
    Regardless, it wasn't a "hit piece". 
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #12 on: August 03, 2022, 11:11:40 AM »
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  • "Know better" implies that something was done wrong.  There was nothing wrong about his speech or participation in that political event.  Just because many political leaders are protestant and just because they get in front of a mic and say a prayer (none of which is mandatory), is not a "prayer service".  :facepalm:


    What does "mixing" mean?  Again, your implication is that this was a religious service.  You fail to distinguish between an organized religious meeting and a political rally where prayers are said.  Further, there is nothing wrong with protestant prayers or a catholic praying aloud to God, using "personal words" (however cringe and sappy these words may be).  There are church-approved prayers (which are best) and then there is just simple, human, prayers from the heart.


    The 2nd point is, if you people haven't figured it out, WE ARE AT WAR!  It's people who believe in God vs the global satanists.  Yes, in a sense, anyone who is half-way trying to do good and who is trying to uphold the natural law is on our side.  It's that bad.  We need all the prayers we can get.  "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". 
    PV, are Jєωs, Protestants, and Orthodox "children of Light" or "soldiers in God's Army" or "citizens of Heaven"?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #13 on: August 03, 2022, 01:50:23 PM »
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  • Quote
    PV, are Jєωs, Protestants, and Orthodox "children of Light" or "soldiers in God's Army" or "citizens of Heaven"?
    Potentially, yes.  As I explained, anyone (in our day and age) who is trying to uphold morality and justice is fighting for God.  And maybe they'll convert someday because God will reward them for the fight.

    And other sheep I have that are not of this fold: them also I must bring. And they shall hear my voice: And there shall be one fold and one shepherd (John 10:16).

    If you say that +Vigano shouldn't take part in a political rally because a few people prayed, then you're falling into the "separation of church and state" trap.  Also, many of those who were praying were Q followers.  You can disagree with Q all you want, but one of the main messages is we're fighting the globalists, who worship satan and commit child ritual sacrifices.  THAT'S why they were praying.  Even pagans can recognize this most basic of evils and if this fear motivated them to pray, then GOOD.

    Also, I know many protestants who are following +Vigano and are impressed with his message.  "That guy's a real catholic" they say (and these are people who call new-rome "Babylon").

    Many of you are missing the larger picture here.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Marshall & Vigano supported zionist interprayer group
    « Reply #14 on: August 03, 2022, 01:57:11 PM »
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  • Potentially, yes.  As I explained, anyone (in our day and age) who is trying to uphold morality and justice is fighting for God.  And maybe they'll convert someday because God will reward them for the fight.
    But Vigano's statements in his speech/prayer clearly include them, not "potentially". That's the issue here.  

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)