Author Topic: M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre  (Read 1532 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Reputation: +147/-0
  • Gender: Male
M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
« on: October 23, 2013, 09:06:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Archbishop,

     You were clear in your letter about the outlines of a protocol of agreement between Ecône and Rome: Ecône, which up until now we support; Rome, which we resist, just as you do.

     The loyalty demanded by the service of the Truth obliges us to declare: We do not want this peace. It appears to be wise. It is, indeed, no more wise than Pilate pretended to be. Jesus was delivered to Pilate because He was accused of saying: “I am the King of the Jews” (John 19:21), whereas the Jews claimed to “have no other king than Cesar” (John 19: 15).

     In reality, Jesus was not brought before Pilate for a royalty “whose origin is not of this world” (John 18: 36). And Jesus did not mean to die to conserve anything. He did not mean to die for anything except to “give testimony to the Truth” (John 14:6); regardless of appearances, it was Pilate who depended on Jesus rather than Jesus on Pilate. Your Excellency, you submit the Mass to the Pope because it disturbs the celebration of the “new mass” (as Paul VI called it), just as Jesus disturbed the Pharisaic order “by teaching throughout all Judea” (Luke 23:5).

     IN REALITY, THE MASS SHOULD NOT BE SUBMITTED TO THE POPE, since the Pope must respect it. We want, with God’s grace, to testify to the Truth; we do not want a peace that “diminishes the Truth” (Psalm 11:2).

     Pilate resorts to expedients to save Jesus. He fails. Thrice he fails, in order to accentuate in a providential way that it is not possible to give testimony to the Truth unless one is in absolute accord with the Truth. Pilate thinks he can save Christ by having recourse to Herod. He is doubly fooled: by expecting Jesus to be saved by those who want His death and by “becoming the friend of Herod” (Luke 23: 12). It is a false unity, since it is a unity against the One who is the Truth.

     Your Excellency, you have recourse to the Pope to conserve the Mass. And you admit that there can be in the Church - inevitably in the same Church - the Mass that is THE MASS and the “new mass.” And you believe that “unity would be restored immediately at the level of the local Bishops.”

    Thus, the unity of the Church would no longer be the radiation of the unique Sacrifice “that Christ commanded from His beloved Spouse”! The unity would no longer be that of “the heavenly Jerusalem that is free and is our mother” (Gal 4: 26). Unity would find itself degraded into a juxtaposition made under the iron fist of an unconditional authority. This is a parody of unity! It is a sacrilege against unity! Archbishop, we do not want this peace or this unity, which would be against the Truth, against the sanctity of the Church, against the Liberty that comes only from the Spirit of Truth. To “save” Jesus, Pilate put Him on par with Barabbas (Marl 15: 9). How could Pilate, mocking the Justice that he should represent, imagine that a changeable mob would impose justice on their [Pharisee] leaders? Pilate could only wash his hands (Mat 27: 24).

     Your Excellency, in order to save the Mass that is the Mass, you put it on par with the “new mass,” in the name of the Religion that you profess. How can you imagine that, instructed by your example, those unstable and weak people who follow you rather than the Truth could restore the sense of the true Religion in a Church occupied by the “high priests” of the god of the Universe? One cannot sit at the same table with Satan. It is Hell that is paved with these good intentions that justify the means by their end, perpetrating a manifest evil under the illusion of doing a good.

     Your Excellency, we do not want this peace that sacrifices the demands of the Religion of “Sprit and Truth” (John 4: 23) for the passing satisfaction of a selfish tranquility. Pilate “found nothing in Jesus that merited death” (Luke 23: 15). It was, however, “by chastising Jesus” (Luke 23: 16), that Pilate thought to buy from the Jews the release of their Prisoner. The public order is worth it - isn’t it? Some lashes of the whip, even if they are unjust. But Pilate fails. The only result is that the Flesh of the Incarnate Word is scourged, His Blood flows, He Himself is humiliated.

     Your Excellency, if there were to be in the Church - God forbid - as you desire the Mass that is THE MASS and the “new mass,” the shrewd polls made about [the preferences of] the “people of God,” duly manipulated, would transform the Mass of the minority into a mockery. The only result would be that the broad sacrilegious practice [of the Consecrations in the “new mass”], but actually deprived of object [because these Consecrations actually do not take place], would have all their blasphemous character now effective against the [true] Real Presence. Have you considered this? Should the price of this false security, founded on the illusion of an unconditional submission to those who did all they could to destroy the Church, be to inflict on the Crucified Christ the blows of the most insolent flagellation ever?

     Your Excellency, we do not want this peace that would be laden with so many sins. It falls to us, to us and not to the Crucified Christ, “to complete” [by this accord] what would be lacking in this flagellation without us. Archbishop, your protocol of peace gives the final blow to a trust that we no longer can have in you, regarding both the question of the Mass and that of “authority.”

     You have celebrated the “new mass” since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970.

     On May 5, 1969, some friends who venerated you, including the one who signs these lines, had come to assist at the Mass that you would celebrate at the altar where the bones of St. Pius V repose at the Roman Basilica of Saint Mary Major. Astonishment, scandal, sorrow! Over the tomb of St. Pius V, it was the “new mass” that you celebrated! Upon leaving, pressured in the square by respectful and sad questions, you declared: “If someone were to see Archbishop Lefebvre celebrating the traditional Mass, it would risk raising scandal.”

    To those same friends, who, encouraged by you, were working to write the text that became the Letter of Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci, you gave comforting assurances: “We will have 600 Bishops [to sign this letter].” This would be enough to move the Pope! Instead, there was not one single Bishop, not even yourself.

     As a matter of fact, you were more concerned about “not giving scandal” than about defending the Truth. We fear that your letter n. 16 [to friends and benefactors] reveals that you did not change.

     You continued to celebrate the “new mass” both at Fribourg and Ecône. The first hopes, nonetheless, started to appear: Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Paul Aulagnier, Bernard Waltz, and three others. On December 24, 1969, at the end of the noon meal, the Dominican priest who signs these lines, then staying at Ecône, with respectful irony said this to you:

    “Monsignor, it is a pity that, while supporting Tradition, you celebrate the ‘new mass,’ which is not the Mass of the Tradition.” This simple observation literally set fire to the gunpowder. The “six,” all your living hope, exploded. Each one in his way and all together posed the same question to you: How is it possible to base fidelity to Tradition upon a “mass” that was “innovated” against Tradition? That incident was very vehement and, by the way, quickly closed. Still, be it by some coincidence due to the action of the Holy Ghost along with an interior movement on your part, the fact is that on December 24, 1970 at the midnight Mass, you returned to saying the Mass according to rite promulgated by St. Pius V, to the great joy of all present.

     Probably you followed the Holy Ghost. But, alas, everything has happened as if you were following your grassroots. Thenceforth you have followed the same tactic. If you would not have supported the Traditional Mass, the seminary of Ecône would have been deprived of its end, and those who supported you would have felt the obligation to abandon you.

     Nonetheless, you have never made a serious doctrinal study of the “new mass.” You affirm it is valid without justifying it. And you have issued “norms” [on how to behave regarding it] from which many of the faithful, or even Ecône seminarians, can deduce whatever they want. And now - all this is unhappily too coherent - you admit that the Mass and the mass can exist together in the Church. This is “ecumenism” inside the Church, the paroxysm of a false ecumenism that replaces with a deceitful union the true unity, which is the unconditional submission to the Liberty inspired by the Truth.

     In the same way, Your Excellency, you admit that there could be a “traditional interpretation of Vatican II,” even after you had written – thanks be to God and to you – the work I accuse the Council.

     Why do you refuse to enunciate clearly, on the “authority” the principles that unavoidably explain your judicious accusations? Instead, as a supposed counter-attack, you imitate the [blind] false prophets who “lead each other into the pit” (Matt 15:14), by announcing a false peace followed by a false prosperity! We must either speak or be silent. But we cannot not proclaim the error and silence the truth. It is with profound sorrow, believe me Your Excellency, that we are obliged in conscience to remind you of this.

     We can no longer trust you. We are not “against you,” we are still “for you,” but we can no longer “be with you.” You count on saving everything through the SSPX; the whole Church, certainly, will be thankful to you for what you have done. But, Your Excellency, you promise too much to be true. Do you remember the promise of the 600 Bishops that never materialized? Remember that when on that “May 5, 1975 you acted firmly no matter what [against Rome],” it was because you opposed those whom today you think you can trust, those whose victim you have become since you are following them.

     Your Excellency, we can no longer “be with you.” We are only “unconditional” with regard to the Truth!

     Holy Thursday April 12, 1979
     M.L. Guérard des Lauriers, O.P.
    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8480
    • Reputation: +1089/-822
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 09:26:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I remember when I got mail from the SSPX calling the true Mass the extraordinary Mass.  I threw it out never to open anything from the SSPX  again.

    Thank you for this most illuminating piece.

     :applause: :applause: :applause:
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13949
    • Reputation: +7109/-2204
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 12:20:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That was absolutely phenomenal.

    Quote
    To “save” Jesus, Pilate put Him on par with Barabbas (Marl 15: 9).  It was, however, “by chastising Jesus” (Luke 23: 16), that Pilate thought to buy from the Jews the release of their Prisoner. ... The public order is worth it - isn’t it? Some lashes of the whip, even if they are unjust. But Pilate fails. The only result is that the Flesh of the Incarnate Word is scourged, His Blood flows, He Himself is humiliated.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13949
    • Reputation: +7109/-2204
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2013, 12:23:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This letter needs to be edited so as to replace references to Archbishop Lefebvre with Bishop Fellay and then sent to Bishop Fellay.

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 461
    • Reputation: +210/-0
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 04:50:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wow I was not aware that Archbishop Lefebvre had celebrated the New Mass for so long... Why is this not in the biography of Archbishop Lefebvre? I mean he changed his stance and no one can really blame him for it, but that long! I thought it was just a few times and that was it, this definitely is an eye opener for me. Especially since he knew the Archbishop so intimately...
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3901
    • Reputation: +1761/-138
    • Gender: Female
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 05:22:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher
    Wow I was not aware that Archbishop Lefebvre had celebrated the New Mass for so long... Why is this not in the biography of Archbishop Lefebvre? I mean he changed his stance and no one can really blame him for it, but that long! I thought it was just a few times and that was it, this definitely is an eye opener for me. Especially since he knew the Archbishop so intimately...


    Why DID he change his stance?  I don't get it.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 461
    • Reputation: +210/-0
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 01:07:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher
    Wow I was not aware that Archbishop Lefebvre had celebrated the New Mass for so long... Why is this not in the biography of Archbishop Lefebvre? I mean he changed his stance and no one can really blame him for it, but that long! I thought it was just a few times and that was it, this definitely is an eye opener for me. Especially since he knew the Archbishop so intimately...


    Why DID he change his stance?  I don't get it.


    Correction: It is not like he changed his stance, he simply stopped celebrating the New mass, which was probably making him feel apostate. Look at what the article the OP said, "You have celebrated the “new mass” since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970."

    That is an awful amount of time, from what I had heard it was doubtful he had ever celebrated it. That is like a year and 8 months... This is why Msgr. De Castro Mayer was so important to Archbishop Lefebvre, I think it was thanks to his friendship with him that he became more rigorist. Deo gratias, for Msgr. De Castro Mayer he was completely something else he is the real St. Athanasius of our time. Never signed Vatican II documents, continued his work in the Diocese never compromised to the modernist. Deo gratias for his testimony...
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3901
    • Reputation: +1761/-138
    • Gender: Female
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 04:34:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher
    Wow I was not aware that Archbishop Lefebvre had celebrated the New Mass for so long... Why is this not in the biography of Archbishop Lefebvre? I mean he changed his stance and no one can really blame him for it, but that long! I thought it was just a few times and that was it, this definitely is an eye opener for me. Especially since he knew the Archbishop so intimately...


    Why DID he change his stance?  I don't get it.


    Correction: It is not like he changed his stance, he simply stopped celebrating the New mass, which was probably making him feel apostate. Look at what the article the OP said, "You have celebrated the “new mass” since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970."

    That is an awful amount of time, from what I had heard it was doubtful he had ever celebrated it. That is like a year and 8 months... This is why Msgr. De Castro Mayer was so important to Archbishop Lefebvre, I think it was thanks to his friendship with him that he became more rigorist. Deo gratias, for Msgr. De Castro Mayer he was completely something else he is the real St. Athanasius of our time. Never signed Vatican II documents, continued his work in the Diocese never compromised to the modernist. Deo gratias for his testimony...


    Ah, I thought you meant that he had changed from Latin mass to New Mass later on.  I thought that was strange indeed.  I'm glad I asked you.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline Luker

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 507
    • Reputation: +639/-0
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 10:10:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Who is the writer of this letter? It sounds like he knew Archbishop Lefebvre very well and from the beginning. Is he one of 'the Nine' ?

    Luke
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 461
    • Reputation: +210/-0
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #9 on: October 29, 2013, 11:05:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Luker
    Who is the writer of this letter? It sounds like he knew Archbishop Lefebvre very well and from the beginning. Is he one of 'the Nine' ?

    Luke


    Ohh he is a card carrying theologian, H.E. Des Lauriers. He was a professor in Rome very respected and a Dominican priest who was later consecrated a Bishop by a Thuc Bishop. He had 3 PhD's in Theology, Philosophy and Mathematics so the man was clearly brilliant. He was a professor at Econe for sometime until he got expelled by +Lefebvre because he wanted to have a false peace with the modernist. Unfortunately Archbishop Lefebvre preferred not to cause a ruckus or "scandalize" the faithful with scary things like SV'ism or other similar things. He just wanted to have a little corner in the Conciliar Church, that plays along nicely if they allow him to continue his work. This was the fundamental problem with the SSPX since the beginning and probably why there are so many divisions, because they all ultimately stem from the thought of the Archbishop. It was his idea Summorum Pontificum, the Indult, official "approval" and so forth. The more rigorist SSPX were also very much a part of the thought of the Archbishop, but only to a certain extent. Now we face all the problems of wanting to have your cake and eat it at the same time. The Pied Piper is asking for its due, and pound of flesh...
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8480
    • Reputation: +1089/-822
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #10 on: October 30, 2013, 12:40:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    He was a professor at Econe for sometime until he got expelled by +Lefebvre because he wanted to have a false peace with the modernist.


    The "he" about is Lefebvre and not the great theologian Lauriers correct?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8480
    • Reputation: +1089/-822
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 12:51:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    He was a professor at Econe for sometime until he got expelled by +Lefebvre because he wanted to have a false peace with the modernist. Unfortunately Archbishop Lefebvre preferred not to cause a ruckus or "scandalize" the faithful with scary things like SV'ism or other similar things. He just wanted to have a little corner in the Conciliar Church, that plays along nicely if they allow him to continue his work. This was the fundamental problem with the SSPX since the beginning and probably why there are so many divisions, because they all ultimately stem from the thought of the Archbishop. It was his idea Summorum Pontificum, the Indult, official "approval" and so forth. The more rigorist SSPX were also very much a part of the thought of the Archbishop, but only to a certain extent. Now we face all the problems of wanting to have your cake and eat it at the same time. The Pied Piper is asking for its due, and pound of flesh...


    This is what I wish many good willed Catholics would see.  The idea of parsing every word and action of "valid" pontiffs for 50 years is unconscionable as is "resisting" one true Pope after another for 50 years.  Either people refuse to realize this or after realizing it STILL don't come to the obvious conclusion that "these guys ain't pope" for one reason or another, though I am still not sure what those reasons could be apart from emotion or latching onto a person, Lefebvre, more than the religion.    

    I used to do the same thing.  I latched on to JP2 throughout the 90's and Ratzinger in the early 2000's because I knew they knew more than I and could lead us out of this mess.  But is this what the archbishop thought from 1965 - 1991 having had traditional theological training before that time?  How did he reconcile himself as being acknowledging, at least publicly, heretics as Popes ALL THAT TIME?  

    Bishop McKenna says the recognize and resisters like to have their Pope and eat him too so your point is well taken.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 461
    • Reputation: +210/-0
    • Gender: Male
    M.L. Gurard des Lauriers, O.P. letter to Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 10:59:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote
    He was a professor at Econe for sometime until he got expelled by +Lefebvre because he wanted to have a false peace with the modernist.


    The "he" about is Lefebvre and not the great theologian Lauriers correct?


    Yes sorry about that! +Lefebvre cleaned house with then Fr. Lauriers at the time. God Bless him, I need to read a little bit more about him. Other then a few Angelus articles I have not read much of him directly, everything that I have read from him has been from Sedevacantism: A False solution to a real problem, and a few other independently sparsed articles. Does anyone have a link where I Can read some of his writings? Thanks  :popcorn:.
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16