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Author Topic: Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope  (Read 6311 times)

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Offline Croix de Fer

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Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
« on: January 22, 2016, 07:54:16 AM »
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  • More evidence Frank is a heretic and unfolding apostate.

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    ROME, January 21, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – A group of Finnish Lutherans were offered Holy Communion by priests at a mass held at the Vatican following a meeting with Pope Francis, according to a report by the Finnish periodical Kotimaa 24.

    The Lutherans were members of an annual ecuмenical delegation to Rome on the part of Catholics, Orthodox, and Lutherans to celebrate the feast day of St. Henry of Uppsala, who is credited with the evangelization of Finland in the 12th century.

    After an audience with the pope, the delegation was present at a celebration of the Catholic mass. According to a Lutheran bishop who was present, at the time of communion the non-Catholics placed their right hands on their left shoulders, a traditional way of indicating that they were ineligible to receive the Eucharist. However, the celebrating priests insisted on giving them communion.

    Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].” He added that “this was not a coincidence,” and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband.

    RELATED: Pope’s advice to Lutheran woman: A clue to how he’ll rule on Communion for the ‘remarried’?

    At that time the pope acknowledged that “explanations and interpretations” of communion may differ between Catholics and Lutherans, but “life is bigger than explanations and interpretations.” He advised the woman to “Talk to the Lord and then go forward.”

    “At the root of this there is, without a doubt, the ecuмenical attitude of a new Vatican,” Salmi told Kotimaa 24. “The pope was not here at the mass, but his strategic intention is to carry out a mission of love and unity. There are also theological adversaries in the Vatican, for which reason it is difficult to assess how much he can say, but he can permit practical gestures.”

    Canon 844 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law only permits the Eucharist to be given to Catholics in the state of grace (that is, not in a state of grave sin), except in cases of non-Catholics who request communion and who are from churches that are approved by the Holy See as holding the same faith as Catholics regarding communion. Lutherans have traditionally been seen as not holding to the same faith as Catholics on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

    In addition to its implications for Catholic-Lutheran relations, the event may also represent the pope’s liberal inclinations regarding the giving of communion to other groups, such as those who are divorced and civilly remarried without having received an annulment of their previous marriage.

    Francis has repeatedly insinuated that he wants to change the practice of refusing communion to the divorced and remarried, speaking warmly of Catholic theologians – such as Cardinal Walter Kasper – who advocate such an approach. However, he has yet to announce any decision on the matter.

    In his remarks to the Finnish delegation, Francis seems to hint at the movement towards intercommunion when he tells the ecuмenical delegation, “Your dialogue is making promising progress towards a shared understanding, on the sacramental level, of Church, Eucharist and Ministry.  These steps forward, made together, lay a solid basis for a growing communion of life in faith and spirituality, as your relations develop in a spirit of serene discussion and fraternal sharing.”

    The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.

    “It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,” he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.”

    “It’s not a personal desire or a personal dialogue with Jesus that determines if I can receive Communion in the Catholic Church,” he added. “How can I know that the Lord has really said: ‘Come and receive My Body.’ No. A person cannot decide if he is able to receive Communion. He has to have the rule of the Church: i.e., being a Catholic, being in a state of grace, properly married [if married].”
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 08:23:52 AM »
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  • Quote

    The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.

    “It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,” he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.”

    “It’s not a personal desire or a personal dialogue with Jesus that determines if I can receive Communion in the Catholic Church,” he added. “How can I know that the Lord has really said: ‘Come and receive My Body.’ No. A person cannot decide if he is able to receive Communion. He has to have the rule of the Church: i.e., being a Catholic, being in a state of grace, properly married [if married].”


    It looks like the Prefect of Divine Worship might not be quite up to speed on the latest developments in the Vatican.  He'll have to become more subjective-minded to keep up with Francis!

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    Offline TKGS

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 10:22:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote

    The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.

    “It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,” he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.”

    “It’s not a personal desire or a personal dialogue with Jesus that determines if I can receive Communion in the Catholic Church,” he added. “How can I know that the Lord has really said: ‘Come and receive My Body.’ No. A person cannot decide if he is able to receive Communion. He has to have the rule of the Church: i.e., being a Catholic, being in a state of grace, properly married [if married].”


    It looks like the Prefect of Divine Worship might not be quite up to speed on the latest developments in the Vatican.  He'll have to become more subjective-minded to keep up with Francis!


    I wonder if Cardinal Burke needs an assistant to help him with the Knights of Malta.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 01:29:00 PM »
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  • It seems like Francis is ruling the church by his actions and words that pop out of his mouth.

    If he wants to set a precedent, he just does it without any consensus of the bishops or ex-cathedral declaration. Will there be a Vatican III to declare all actions of a pope to be infallible?

    Already by Francis' words and deeds, he has proclaimed himself to be in apostasy.



    Lord have mercy.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 04:59:10 PM »
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  • As if we needed more evidence.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline OHCA

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 05:02:39 PM »
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  • I would love to hear what Poche has to say about this.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #6 on: January 22, 2016, 05:05:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    I would love to hear what Poche has to say about this.


    I wouldn't. I'm sure it will be  :facepalm: worthy.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    • I will not respond to any posts from Poche.
    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 08:54:30 PM »
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  • Knowing Poche, he may be very ecuмenical.

    He may surprise us such as when he called the ѕуηαgσgυє in Rome, correctly
    the ѕуηαgσgυє of satan.

    More Poche reads CI, more he is changing his brainwashed opinions.



    Offline poche

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #8 on: January 23, 2016, 02:55:55 AM »
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  • Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].” He added that “this was not a coincidence,” and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband.

    This is incorrect. At no time did Pope Francis say to that woman that she should receive communion in the Catholic Church. He told her to examine her conscience. Hopefully after examining her conscience she will come to the realization of the truth that is the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist and take the steps to be able to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The priest was obviously wrong to be giving communion to people he knew were not Catholic.

    Offline poche

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #9 on: January 23, 2016, 03:04:52 AM »
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  •  In addition to its implications for Catholic-Lutheran relations, the event may also represent the pope’s liberal inclinations regarding the giving of communion to other groups, such as those who are divorced and civilly remarried without having received an annulment of their previous marriage.

    This is incorrect. At no time has Pope Francis given permission for divorced and civilly remarried people who have not gotten an annulment of their previous marriage to receive communion.  

    Offline poche

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #10 on: January 23, 2016, 03:23:09 AM »
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  • The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.

    “It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,” he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.”

    Actually talking to the Lord is what communion is all about. We enter into an intimate communion with Jesus. It is through prayer that I examine my conscience. Am I in the state of sanctifying grace? If not then I need to go to confession so that I may be worthy to receive Holy Communion. Does the church that I belong to follow all of what Jesus said while he was on this earth? (hint, if your church is not the Catholic Church then it is not following what Jesus said) Maybe I need to do what it takes to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church.


    Offline OHCA

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 06:35:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    This is incorrect. At no time did Pope Francis say to that woman that she should receive communion in the Catholic Church. He told her to examine her conscience. Hopefully after examining her conscience she will come to the realization of the truth that is the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist and take the steps to be able to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The priest was obviously wrong to be giving communion to people he knew were not Catholic.


    "Examine your conscience" sounds wishy-washily subjective and apparently sent mixed (or wrong) signals to the lady and the prietender who administered communion to her.  Wonder if Frank's conscience is bothered in the least that he didn't advise clearly objective Catholic teaching with regard to the incident?

    Offline TKGS

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #12 on: January 23, 2016, 08:00:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    This is incorrect. At no time did Pope Francis say to that woman that she should receive communion in the Catholic Church. He told her to examine her conscience.


    Answering a direct question by a Protestant to "examine her conscience" answers the question by implicitly suggesting that if her (malformed) conscience tells her that it is ok, then to go ahead and do what, objectively, is wrong.  He answered her question in the affirmative without actually saying yes.  If you deny this, you are simply another "useful idiot".

    Quote from: poche
    This is incorrect. At no time has Pope Francis given permission for divorced and civilly remarried people who have not gotten an annulment of their previous marriage to receive communion.


    Here you are simply denying, without evidence, that what others have testified to.  On at least two occasions, individuals have reported that they have received phone calls from Bergoglio specifically telling them that they could receive communion even though they were legally married but one of the two had been unable to obtain an annulment.  Since the fact that Bergoglio has called these people has been confirmed while the contents of the conversations has not been, though no official has denied the reports by the recipients, the evidence is that you are simply making up your denial.

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #13 on: January 23, 2016, 12:16:15 PM »
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  • Lutherans received Communion at the Vatican under the reign of Frank - right under his nose. It doesn't get any closer to "home" with this abomination. A true pope guided by the Holy Ghost would never allow heretics to receive Holy Communion. That's the bottom line. There is no excuse. Frank is supposed to be the pope, he must fulfill his duties by not allowing priests to give the Sacrament to heretics. Even if he learned of it after the fact, he has made no public renunciation of this abomination. If LifeSiteNews can learn of this sacrilege and report it around the world, surely Franky has learned about it, if he didn't know in advance and give his approval. Just like a slithery snake, this Frank, by his silence, implicitly refuses accountability and makes it appear as if this is a mistake committed, alone, by the priests. Now, a particular gluttonous, fat, modernist, Novus Ordoites tries to make excuses, as usual, for Frank. He's a dime a dozen in Newchurch.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline OHCA

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    Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope
    « Reply #14 on: January 23, 2016, 02:45:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: ascent
    Now, a particular gluttonous, fat, modernist, Novus Ordoite...