Author Topic: LoT And The Alleged Sodomite Pervert Pope. (Read 5525 times)

roscoe · « **Reply #45 on:** September 10, 2009, 02:21:58 PM »

This is obvious LoT as why would a Pope need a cofessor if this were not the case. Tell us something we don't know.

I would like U or anyone else to show a history book, Papal Allocution, theological text or any other evidence that there even is such a thing as a 'sede vacantist' or 'sede vacantism'.

In all the past 10 yrs of studying Church history, I have never run across either term until D Hobson once asked me on the phone if I was one.

My first reaction was one of dismay as I immediately wondered how Pope Gregory XVII can be Pope and the chair of Peter to be vacant at the same time.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #46 on:** September 10, 2009, 02:51:46 PM »

There was a state of sedevacantism between the election of each pope, it is a latin phrase that merely states the fact that the chair or seat is vacant.

Unfortuneately I do not have time to enter into numerous tedious arguements that don't get anywhere. I'm surprised that no one else on this forum has helped you.

If you are of good will motivated solely by the seeking of truth I know some on this blog can help you.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #47 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:11:54 PM »

Roscoe never replies to any objections.

He keeps saying in this thread that Boniface VII is an anti-Pope and that St. Pius X said so. Actually he was always an anti-Pope. He had an invalid election and probably murdered Boniface VI who was the real Pope.

So whether he continued murdering once he was in office makes no difference. He was not a real Pope to begin with.

What is the relevance of bringing this up?

CM · « **Reply #48 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:51:04 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Roscoe never replies to any objections.

Indeed. Troubling, troubling.

roscoe · « **Reply #49 on:** September 10, 2009, 04:14:15 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

There was a state of sedevacantism between the election of each pope, it is a latin phrase that merely states the fact that the chair or seat is vacant.

Unfortuneately I do not have time to enter into numerous tedious arguements that don't get anywhere. I'm surprised that no one else on this forum has helped you.

If you are of good will motivated solely by the seeking of truth I know some on this blog can help you.

You have made an allegation that there have been Popes who have had mistresses and children while validly and legally holding the throne. There is no need to engage in tedious arguments-- just a need to supply the names of those Popes and sources of the charge. i am assumong you have learned this from somewhere.

roscoe · « **Reply #50 on:** September 10, 2009, 04:18:35 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Roscoe never replies to any objections.

He keeps saying in this thread that Boniface VII is an anti-Pope and that St. Pius X said so. Actually he was always an anti-Pope. He had an invalid election and probably murdered Boniface VI who was the real Pope.

So whether he continued murdering once he was in office makes no difference. He was not a real Pope to begin with.

What is the relevance of bringing this up?

Boniface 7 may have been thought by some to a be an anti-pope but was not officially declared so until St Pius X. Boniface 6 and 7 lived 100 yrs apart and it is quite impossible for 7 to have murdered 6.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #51 on:** September 11, 2009, 06:16:30 PM »

roscoe · « **Reply #52 on:** September 11, 2009, 07:09:07 PM »

I will have to get out my copy of von Pastor to be sure but even the children of Alex VI were born b4 he was Pope-- although he most likely was still a priest of some degree. Wiki is of course not always reliable but it does say the orgies were exagerated. Pius IV and Paul III had children but b4 they were ordained.

roscoe · « **Reply #53 on:** September 11, 2009, 07:13:18 PM »

Vols 5 and 6 of von Pastor( Alex VI vols) can be accessed at Wikipedia.

roscoe · « **Reply #54 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:54:38 PM »

It 's really a chore to scroll down v5 all the way to p375 so I will have to postpone reading my new copy of Hitler's Personal Security by Pedro Hoffman and dig out v5. I will report the on the specifics of the domestic troubles of Alex VI re: his children-- at least acc to von Pastor.

roscoe · « **Reply #55 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:06:16 AM »

All of his children were born b4 he was Pope. My statements re: Alex Vi in the past have only been to say that I have been able to rehabilitate his character to some extent. He is still the Renaissance Pope but I don't put him as low as the Medici( although the personal morals of the Medici far outshone Alex). But I agree and Popes can sin and still be Popes.

Your attitude however seems to be that we are to accept immorality among Popes as an everyday occurance while historically this is far from the truth. I cannot find a Pope who had a child as a Pope. Alex is the only one I have ever found who even had one while prev ordained.

roscoe · « **Reply #56 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:07:56 AM »

There probably are some anti-popes.

CM · « **Reply #57 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:16:05 AM »

If you are tired of me telling you you're wrong, will you at least listen to Pope Martin V?

Quote from: Pope Martin V, at the Council of Constance and from the chair of St. Peter, condemned the following proposition of John Hus, which

If the pope is wicked, and especially if he is foreknown to damnation, then he is a devil like Judas the apostle, a thief and a son of perdition and is not the head of the holy Church militant since he is not even a member of it.

roscoe · « **Reply #58 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:24:36 AM »

Do you think Alex Vi is an anti-pope?

CM · « **Reply #59 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:48:25 AM »

Nope.

Quote from: Pope Leo X, at the Fifth Lateran Council,

They point out that this opinion was approved by our predecessors of happy memory, the Roman pontiffs Paul II, Sixtus IV, Innocent VIII, Alexander VI and Julius II, as well as by saints and persons devoted to God and held in high esteem for their holiness, and has been preached in sermons about the gospel truth.