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Author Topic: Looking Into Sedevacantism  (Read 4652 times)

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Offline Struthio

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Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2018, 03:24:50 PM »
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  • Congratulations.  You now hold the Protestant doctrine of indefectibility.  
    The Catholic doctrine, which your Protestant forefathers rejected, is that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church," and by "Church," is meant the a visible, juridical institution that has existed since the days of the apostles.  
    You better study the Catholic doctrine on indefectibility pronto, before you become hardened in yet another heresy.

    I quoted the Council of Trent above. Did you read that? That's the Magisterium of the Church. I don't care about being name-called protestant. But you call the Council of Trent protestant.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #61 on: September 11, 2018, 03:38:43 PM »
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  • @Pax Vobis

    Yes, in his homilies about Thessalonians, St John Chrysostom makes sure that antichrist is not an angel but "some man".

    In the homilies about Matthew he identifies antichrist as many man, as an army. So what? An army typically has a general.

    Others identify the two horned beast of the apocalypse as antichrist. A beast in Daniel and in the Apocalypse is a kingdom or some sort of collective.

    Why is it so important whether antichrist is an army of heretics or the head of an army of heretics? (St. John the Apostle defines antichrist as heretic).
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #62 on: September 11, 2018, 03:46:00 PM »
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  • The point is, the Church Fathers described the antichrist as both a particular man AND as evil ideals or wordly lusts (i.e. the "spirit of antichrist").  You deny the former and only accept the latter.  That's wrong.  It's both.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #63 on: September 11, 2018, 03:54:38 PM »
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  • The point is, the Church Fathers described the antichrist as both a particular man AND as evil ideals or wordly lusts (i.e. the "spirit of antichrist").  You deny the former and only accept the latter.  That's wrong.  It's both.

    Relax man! I don't deny anything. I just depict what St. Chrysostom explains in his Opus imperfectum in Matthaeum.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #64 on: September 11, 2018, 04:32:56 PM »
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  • Antichrist will not only deceive many, he will deceive virtually all but very few. "And when the scattering of the band [manus populi] of the holy people shall be accomplished, all these things shall be finished." (Dan 12,7) Only a scattered handful [manus populi] of faithful will be left. I think, one should not imagine that antichrist orders masses to literally kneel in front of him. Who would be deceived if he did that?

    In Daniel 12,4 and 12,9 we read, that the prophecy is sealed. "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time appointed: many shall pass over, and knowledge shall be manifold." "And he said: Go, Daniel, because the words are shut up, and sealed until the appointed time." There will be many interpretations, but it will not be understood until the time when it happens. In Apocalypse 10, apparently the same angle has St. John eat the book (of Daniel?) and prophesize again, that "the Gentiles shall tread the holy city under foot".

    No wonder, that the Church has not decreed and defined the details about the time of tribulation before Our Lord returns.

    Conclusio: Watch out!
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #65 on: September 11, 2018, 05:10:50 PM »
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  • Church.  Like Math books, you can throw them out, but math is in the heart and mind, can not be destroyed.  So, Church will prevail, like this.  Anti-Christ, will be a man, but brought on by Jєωs/Freemasons.  Well, the Jєωs said, "This is not the Savior we are looking for.  So, they will come up with their own.  Magician.  But leading up to "the" anti-christ, are those against Christ and can be referred to as anti-christs.  Like Luther would be an example of an anti-christ.

    Catholic prophecies, Tan book.  Also "The Mystical City of God" readings are also of prophecies. and Good reading.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #66 on: October 10, 2018, 12:58:54 PM »
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  • Good points in this summary:

    Quote
    THEOLOGICAL POSITION: Sede Vacante

    Traditional Catholics adhere to the Catholic Faith as it has been consistently taught throughout the centuries since the time of Christ. With the death of Pope Pius XII and with the convocation of the Second Vatican Council, an unprecedented situation has befallen the Church, which threatens her very doctrines and worship. In order to provide for the preservation of the Catholic Faith and the traditional Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Sacraments, the following statement has been drawn up for the purpose of clearly defining the actual position that these priests have taken.

    I. VATICAN COUNCIL II: Convoked by John XXIII for the purpose of “updating” the Church, this council (held from 1962-65) decreed and implemented teachings which had been previously condemned by the Infallible Teaching Magisterium of the Church. The Second Vatican Council’s heretical teachings were primarily in the areas of religious liberty and false ecuмenism. These were previously condemned by:
    Pope Gregory XVI in Mirari Vos (1832)
     Pope Pius IX in Quanta Cura and Syllabus of Errors (1864)
     Pope Leo XIII in Immortale Dei (1865) and Libertas Humana (1888 )
     Pope Pius XI in Quas Primas (1925) and Mortalium Animos (1928 )
     Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis (1943)


    THEREFORE, the Second Vatican Council is to be rejected as a false council because it has erred in its teachings on faith and morals.

    II. NOVUS ORDO MISSAE: Following the Second Vatican Council, various commissions were established to modernize the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the traditional rites of the Sacraments. The particular commission established to modernize the Mass included well-known Protestant theologians. To use the words of a well-known Cardinal, Alfredo Ottaviani, in 1969: “(The Novus Ordo Missae) represents a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent.” The results of this modernization were a new definition of the Mass (reflecting Luther’s concept of the Last Supper), the alteration of the Offertory prayers to delete the concept of propitiatory Sacrifice, and the substantial alteration of the very words of Consecration (this alteration occurs in the vernacular translations). This new mass, known as the Novus Ordo Missae, contradicts previous infallible teachings and decrees of the Catholic Church, such as:
    Pope St. Pius V’s Quo Primum and De Defectibus,
     the Council of Trent’s decree on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (Session XXII),
     Pope Leo XIII’s Apostolicae Curae (1896),
     Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei (1947),
     Pope Pius XII’s Sacramentum Ordinis (1948 )

    THEREFORE, the Novus Ordo Missae, when offered with the altered words of Consecration, is an invalid Mass and in all other cases it is of doubtful validity. It always is a clear danger to one’s faith. For all these reasons, active participation in it would be a grave sin.

    III. NEW RITES OF THE SACRAMENTS: That which has been said of the Novus Ordo Missae can, in the same respect, be said of the new Vatican II rites for the seven sacraments. To the degree that the matter, form and intention of each of the sacraments has been substantially altered, to that degree their validity must be questioned. The Catholic Church has, most certainly, always taught what the proper matter, form and intention are in the confecting of the sacraments.

    THEREFORE, where the new rites have been employed, traditional priests should administer the Sacraments sub conditione as the situation may demand.

    IV. MODERN VATICAN II CHURCH: The Catholic Church is identified as the true Church of Christ by her four marks (Unity, Holiness, Catholicity, and Apostolicity). Since the heretical teachings of Vatican II, the Novus Ordo Missae, and the new rites of the sacraments have manifestly been a departure from the Catholic Church’s traditional teachings, it must be concluded that this modern so-called “Catholic” Church no longer possesses the first two marks of the true Church — namely, Unity and Holiness. Its obvious departure over the past twenty-five years from what the Catholic Church has always held can lead to only one conclusion: a new ecuмenical Church has been established which stands in contradiction to the true Catholic Church.

    V. MODERN HIERARCHY OF THE VATICAN II CHURCH: In the light of the above, it must be concluded that the modern hierarchy who have approved and implemented the errors of Vatican II no longer represent the Catholic Church and her lawful authority. This most certainly includes the one who confirmed, approved, decreed, and implemented these heretical teachings, namely Paul VI (Montini). Likewise included are his successors, namely, John Paul II (Wojtyla), Benedict XVI (Ratzinger), and Francis (Bergoglio), who have continued to implement these heretical teachings. Despite the lack of canonical warning and formal declaration of loss of office, their repeated acts of ecuмenism and their enforcement of the heresies of Vatican II and the new code of Canon Law, which are injurious to faith and morals, are manifestations of their pertinacity in heresy.

    THEREFORE, as the First Vatican Council infallibly teaches: “‘Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build My Church,’ these words are proven true by actual results, since in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved untainted...the See of St. Peter always remains unimpaired by any error, according to the divine promise of Our Lord.” Further, since John Paul II has manifestly taught heresy, promoted ecuмenism and fostered interfaith worship, he clearly cannot be recognized as a successor of St. Peter in the primacy.

    VI. THE NEW CODE OF CANON LAW: In order to implement the teachings of Vatican II, it was necessary that the modernists change the Code of Canon Law (1917), as it contradicted their designs by reflecting the mind of the Church in her past doctrine and discipline. The new code contains a matter which should be most disturbing to the informed Catholic. According to the new law of the Modern Church, non-Catholics can, under certain circuмstances, petition the “sacraments” from a Catholic priest (without the non-Catholic abjuring his heretical beliefs), and the priests must administer them. The Council of Florence, as well as the 1917 Code of Canon Law (Canon 731), strictly forbids this.

    THEREFORE, as the universal laws of the Church are protected by her infallibility and cannot impose obligations opposed to faith and morals, the New Code must be considered as lacking all force of law. Moreover, it has been promulgated by those who no longer represent Catholic authority.

    VII. COURSE FOR TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC PRIESTS: Due to the unprecedented situation in the Catholic Church and the moral responsibility of the faithful to receive certainly valid sacraments, traditional priests most certainly can and must continue the mission of the Catholic Church by sanctifying the faithful through the offering of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the administration of the Sacraments, and other pastoral works. The mind of the Church is that “the salvation of the people is the supreme law.” The 1917 Code of Canon Law will continue to be the priests’ guideline.








    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #67 on: October 10, 2018, 01:21:58 PM »
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  • @Pax Vobis

    Yes, in his homilies about Thessalonians, St John Chrysostom makes sure that antichrist is not an angel but "some man".

    In the homilies about Matthew he identifies antichrist as many man, as an army. So what? An army typically has a general.

    Others identify the two horned beast of the apocalypse as antichrist. A beast in Daniel and in the Apocalypse is a kingdom or some sort of collective.

    Why is it so important whether antichrist is an army of heretics or the head of an army of heretics? (St. John the Apostle defines antichrist as heretic).
    We have had many types of Antichrist, but one will come to power during the End Times who will display awesome signs and who will at first appease the people so that they will elect him to rule over the world, but then this Antichrist will turn against the people and force them to deny Christ or be executed.

    Some are saying that Prince Harry of the UK might become this Antichrist, and that he is being groomed to assume this position.

    Others are saying that we are being granted a time of grace, that the current evildoers will be removed from power, and that the Antichrist will come later on, but not in this generation. We do not know when Christ will come again to judge the earth.

    Nero, Hitler, Lenin, and Stalin were all considered to be types of antichrists.
    .
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #68 on: October 10, 2018, 02:42:45 PM »
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  • Good points in this summary:

    Except, as per always, it misses the CHIEF and most fundamental error of Vatican II, the Protestant anti-Tridentine ecclesiology and soteriology that's at the root of all the errors.