Hello everyone. I have been in the R&R camp for a while, but I've been studying about sedevacantism for some time.

I still have not come to a firm conclusion but I am leaning towards sedevacantism more and more as the theory that best explains the VCII crisis according to Catholic principles.

For the sedevacantists here, what materials would you suggest I read/ watch regarding sedevacantism and what was it that brought you to the sedevacante conclusion?

For the R&R people, what difficulties currently keep you from holding the sedevacantist position?

Thank you. 

Reading Vatican I for defining pope that was needed to come to infallibility.  Cardinal Manning book "Temporal powers of the Vicar of Christ. That comes under www.archives.org (?)  You may find it listed under spiritual readings on this forum. Cardinal Manning was behind having Vatican I and there is another book by him for Vatican I.  Pope Leo XIII was with Cardinal Manning for Vatican I.  Thank God Vatican I happened, for it does say a lot and Cardinal Manning wondered about the powers of the Pope if we were to see the days we are seeing now.

In my opinion, any one who says a New Order mess is heretical.  It is manifest/public as one can get to show fruits.

If you have 3 minutes watch this one!

Also pray to know the Truth and pray daily to love the Truth







Don't pay much to those who say sedevacantism is not Catholic, SEDEVACANTISM is a Catholic term and in that video is shown the stamp the Vatican issued.  They believe the Church can deceive and be deceived.  

A video playlist:
https://tinyurl.com/y9dt5g3x

Hello everyone. I have been in the R&R camp for a while, but I've been studying about sedevacantism for some time.

I still have not come to a firm conclusion but I am leaning towards sedevacantism more and more as the theory that best explains the VCII crisis according to Catholic principles.

If only it were that simple. The enemy went to great lengths to insure it was not at all simple. But the truth is there, it's plain, it's clear, it's real, and like so many truths, it's hidden right in front of everyone's face.  

For the R&R people, what difficulties currently keep you from holding the sedevacantist position?

Aside from the pope's status having no impact whatsoever on my eternal sentence, I would say that the dogma declared by pope Boniface VIII in 1302 keeps me anti-sede. "...we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”  Adhering to this dogma is more "absolutely necessary" in today's environment than ever.


I like the way Michael from SD put it:

Re. "The Pope heretic loses office"; it is clear that if the Pope became a heretic, he would cease to be Catholic and therefore, head of the Church. But removing him from office is entirely another matter. I don't think any of the theologians that dealt with this issue, could ever have conceived of the present crisis that we are going through. We are therefore stuck with Francis until he dies or resigns.

I have said this many times and get no response.  If you all believe that the Church was infiltrated before Vatican II, (read Alta Vendita)  and the results prove that it was infiltrated those infiltrators who worked their way up into the highest parts of the Church and when time to elect a Pope, they did not have the authority nor proper agenda for electing of a Pope.  

Read this docuмent, nothing needs be done, we have been without a pope for awhile, but still have a Head, His name is Jesus Christ. 

Simony can be money, gift, profit or benefit etc.  A SIMONIACAL ELECTION WAS PERFORMED

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Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.

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SESSION 5

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16 February 1513

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[Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the evil of simony when electing the Roman pontiff]

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Inserted constitution

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Julius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record. From a consideration that the detestable crime of simony is forbidden by both divine and human law, particularly in spiritual matters, and that it is especially heinous and destructive for the whole church in the election of the Roman pontiff, the vicar of our lord Jesus Christ, we therefore, placed by God in charge of the government of the same universal church, despite being of little merit, desire, so far as we are able with God’s help, to take effective measures for the future with regard to the aforesaid things, as we are bound to, in accordance with the necessity of such an important matter and the greatness of the danger. With the advice and unanimous consent of our brothers, cardinals of the holy Roman church, by means of this our constitution which will have permanent validity, we establish, ordain, decree and define, by apostolic authority and the fulness of our power, that if it happens (which may God avert in his mercy and goodness towards all), after God has released us or our successors from the government of the universal church, that by the efforts of the enemy of the human race and following the urge of ambition or greed, the election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the election resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this election or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the election, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.

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A further consequence is that the person elected in this manner is automatically deprived, without the need of any other declaration, of his cardinal’s rank and of all other honours whatsoever as well as of cathedral churches, even metropolitan and patriarchical ones, monasteries, dignities and all other benefices and pensions of whatever kind which he was then holding by title or in commendam or otherwise; and that the elected person is to be regarded as, and is in fact, not a follower of the apostles but an apostate and, like Simon, a magicianl and a heresiarch, and perpetually debarred from each and all of the above-mentioned things. A simoniacal election of this kind is never at any time to be made valid by a subsequent enthronement or the passage of time, or even by the act of adoration or obedience of all the cardinals. It shall be lawful for each and all of the cardinals, even those who consented to the simoniacal election or promotion, even after the enthronement and adoration or obedience, as well as for all the clergy and the Roman people, together with those serving as prefects, castellans, captains and other officials at the Castel Sant’ Angelo in Rome and any other strongholds of the Roman church, notwithstanding any submission or oath or pledge given, to withdraw without penalty and at any time from obedience and loyalty to the person so elected even if he has been enthroned (while they themselves, notwithstanding this, remain fully committed to the faith of the Roman church and to obedience towards a future Roman pontiff entering office in accordance with the canons) and to avoid him as a magician, a heathen, a publican and a heresiarch. To discomfort him still further, if he uses the pretext of the election to interfere in the government of the universal church, the cardinals who wish to oppose the aforesaid election can ask for the help of the secular arm against him.

 

For the sedevacantists here, what materials would you suggest I read/ watch regarding sedevacantism and what was it that brought you to the sedevacante conclusion?

Heretics are not Catholics. Catholics are baptized, confess the faith undefiled, and are subject to the (to any) reigning pope. Heretics do not confess the faith undefiled and hence are not Catholics.

The robber council of the 1960ies was a most solemn declaration of heresy of virtually all bishops of the time including the pope. E.g., to hold that there is a natural right to religious liberty, is heresy. All Fathers of that robber council are heretics having declared their heresies in a most manifest way. Their offspring is of the same kind.

Heretics are defectors, which — following Canon Law, Can. 188 §4 — lose their offices ipso facto (sentenced by the fact itself), or in other words latae sententiae (sentence automatically imposed, no further explicit sentence necessary).

But we do not even need Can. 188 §4. Communicatio in sacris with heretics is a sacrilege. It does not only not please the Lord. Communicatio in sacris includes participation in their rites as well as their teachings. A pope or a bishop cannot be someone we should shun, whose rites and teachings we must avoid.