Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Looking Into Sedevacantism  (Read 2607 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Beaumont

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Reputation: +9/-1
  • Gender: Male
Looking Into Sedevacantism
« on: August 25, 2018, 09:34:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hello everyone. I have been in the R&R camp for a while, but I've been studying about sedevacantism for some time.

    I still have not come to a firm conclusion but I am leaning towards sedevacantism more and more as the theory that best explains the VCII crisis according to Catholic principles.

    For the sedevacantists here, what materials would you suggest I read/ watch regarding sedevacantism and what was it that brought you to the sedevacante conclusion?

    For the R&R people, what difficulties currently keep you from holding the sedevacantist position?

    Thank you. 

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3736
    • Reputation: +3625/-1041
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: August 25, 2018, 09:50:51 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!6
  • I would start here:

     
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-



    Offline songbird

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3303
    • Reputation: +1221/-63
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: August 25, 2018, 09:52:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Reading Vatican I for defining pope that was needed to come to infallibility.  Cardinal Manning book "Temporal powers of the Vicar of Christ. That comes under www.archives.org (?)  You may find it listed under spiritual readings on this forum. Cardinal Manning was behind having Vatican I and there is another book by him for Vatican I.  Pope Leo XIII was with Cardinal Manning for Vatican I.  Thank God Vatican I happened, for it does say a lot and Cardinal Manning wondered about the powers of the Pope if we were to see the days we are seeing now.

    In my opinion, any one who says a New Order mess is heretical.  It is manifest/public as one can get to show fruits.

    Offline Beaumont

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 24
    • Reputation: +9/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: August 25, 2018, 09:57:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you, Songbird. I was originally frustrated with Vatican I, because I thought those behind declaring papal infallibility had gotten us into a bind, seeing as how ultramontanism gave the pope such power and authority which was, after '58, all being used to destroy the Church by the VCII popes. But now I'm beginning to see that they assumed firstly, that the pope would not be allowed by the Holy Ghost to do such things. And secondly, that if a man claiming to be pope did indeed do such things, then he was not a pope but a wolf. 

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6000
    • Reputation: +3474/-323
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #4 on: August 25, 2018, 10:46:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you have 3 minutes watch this one!

    Also pray to know the Truth and pray daily to love the Truth







    Don't pay much to those who say sedevacantism is not Catholic, SEDEVACANTISM is a Catholic term and in that video is shown the stamp the Vatican issued.  They believe the Church can deceive and be deceived.  


    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7161
    • Reputation: +4321/-556
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: August 25, 2018, 11:08:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would start by reading very closely Vatican I First Dogmatic Constitution, Pastor Aeternus.

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4424
    • Reputation: +3797/-230
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2018, 05:18:40 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • Offline forlorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 556
    • Reputation: +233/-274
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: August 26, 2018, 05:32:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm torn about it myself, on the one hand I don't think God would leave us without a Pope this long, and on the other hand I can't see how Francis could be Pope.


    Offline Stubborn

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8782
    • Reputation: +3463/-720
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 09:01:51 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hello everyone. I have been in the R&R camp for a while, but I've been studying about sedevacantism for some time.

    I still have not come to a firm conclusion but I am leaning towards sedevacantism more and more as the theory that best explains the VCII crisis according to Catholic principles.
    If only it were that simple. The enemy went to great lengths to insure it was not at all simple. But the truth is there, it's plain, it's clear, it's real, and like so many truths, it's hidden right in front of everyone's face.  



    Quote
    For the R&R people, what difficulties currently keep you from holding the sedevacantist position?
    Aside from the pope's status having no impact whatsoever on my eternal sentence, I would say that the dogma declared by pope Boniface VIII in 1302 keeps me anti-sede. "...we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”  Adhering to this dogma is more "absolutely necessary" in today's environment than ever.


    I like the way Michael from SD put it:
    Quote
    Re. "The Pope heretic loses office"; it is clear that if the Pope became a heretic, he would cease to be Catholic and therefore, head of the Church. But removing him from office is entirely another matter. I don't think any of the theologians that dealt with this issue, could ever have conceived of the present crisis that we are going through. We are therefore stuck with Francis until he dies or resigns.



    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3234
    • Reputation: +1968/-976
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 01:06:52 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    "The Pope heretic loses office"; it is clear that if the Pope became a heretic, he would cease to be Catholic and therefore, head of the Church. But removing him from office is entirely another matter. I don't think any of the theologians that dealt with this issue, could ever have conceived of the present crisis that we are going through. We are therefore stuck with Francis until he dies or resigns.
    I agree with this as well.

    Looking back at all the theologians who studied the matter of a bad pope, there are two main questions to discuss:
    1.  Can the pope ever become a heretic and lose the faith?
    2.  What happens if the pope becomes a heretic and loses the faith?

    Most theologians never moved past question 1 because most could never conceive that the pope could even lose his faith.  So, as we are presently dealing with the situation of #2, the number of theological opinions on "what happens now?" is quite small.  There's definitely not a consensus on what happens even among the small # of theologians who attempted to answer the question.

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6000
    • Reputation: +3474/-323
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 02:29:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have said this many times and get no response.  If you all believe that the Church was infiltrated before Vatican II, (read Alta Vendita)  and the results prove that it was infiltrated those infiltrators who worked their way up into the highest parts of the Church and when time to elect a Pope, they did not have the authority nor proper agenda for electing of a Pope.  

    Read this document, nothing needs be done, we have been without a pope for awhile, but still have a Head, His name is Jesus Christ. 

    Quote
    Simony can be money, gift, profit or benefit etc.  A SIMONIACAL ELECTION WAS PERFORMED
    Quote
    Quote
    Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.

    Quote
    SESSION 5
    Quote
    16 February 1513
    Quote
    [Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the evil of simony when electing the Roman pontiff]
    Quote
    Inserted constitution
    Quote
    Julius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record. From a consideration that the detestable crime of simony is forbidden by both divine and human law, particularly in spiritual matters, and that it is especially heinous and destructive for the whole church in the election of the Roman pontiff, the vicar of our lord Jesus Christ, we therefore, placed by God in charge of the government of the same universal church, despite being of little merit, desire, so far as we are able with God’s help, to take effective measures for the future with regard to the aforesaid things, as we are bound to, in accordance with the necessity of such an important matter and the greatness of the danger. With the advice and unanimous consent of our brothers, cardinals of the holy Roman church, by means of this our constitution which will have permanent validity, we establish, ordain, decree and define, by apostolic authority and the fulness of our power, that if it happens (which may God avert in his mercy and goodness towards all), after God has released us or our successors from the government of the universal church, that by the efforts of the enemy of the human race and following the urge of ambition or greed, the election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the election resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this election or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the election, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.
    Quote
    A further consequence is that the person elected in this manner is automatically deprived, without the need of any other declaration, of his cardinal’s rank and of all other honours whatsoever as well as of cathedral churches, even metropolitan and patriarchical ones, monasteries, dignities and all other benefices and pensions of whatever kind which he was then holding by title or in commendam or otherwise; and that the elected person is to be regarded as, and is in fact, not a follower of the apostles but an apostate and, like Simon, a magicianl and a heresiarch, and perpetually debarred from each and all of the above-mentioned things. A simoniacal election of this kind is never at any time to be made valid by a subsequent enthronement or the passage of time, or even by the act of adoration or obedience of all the cardinals. It shall be lawful for each and all of the cardinals, even those who consented to the simoniacal election or promotion, even after the enthronement and adoration or obedience, as well as for all the clergy and the Roman people, together with those serving as prefects, castellans, captains and other officials at the Castel Sant’ Angelo in Rome and any other strongholds of the Roman church, notwithstanding any submission or oath or pledge given, to withdraw without penalty and at any time from obedience and loyalty to the person so elected even if he has been enthroned (while they themselves, notwithstanding this, remain fully committed to the faith of the Roman church and to obedience towards a future Roman pontiff entering office in accordance with the canons) and to avoid him as a magician, a heathen, a publican and a heresiarch. To discomfort him still further, if he uses the pretext of the election to interfere in the government of the universal church, the cardinals who wish to oppose the aforesaid election can ask for the help of the secular arm against him.
     


    Offline rum

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 670
    • Reputation: +313/-166
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #11 on: August 26, 2018, 02:35:07 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • One thing I've noticed about sedevacantists is that they don't appear to less Judaized than other traditional Catholic groups. One of the striking signs I'd think one would find among the true remnant of Catholics would be a pronounced anti-Jewishness that sets them apart.

    Offline Struthio

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 376
    • Reputation: +86/-57
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #12 on: August 26, 2018, 04:51:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • For the sedevacantists here, what materials would you suggest I read/ watch regarding sedevacantism and what was it that brought you to the sedevacante conclusion?

    Heretics are not Catholics. Catholics are baptized, confess the faith undefiled, and are subject to the (to any) reigning pope. Heretics do not confess the faith undefiled and hence are not Catholics.

    The robber council of the 1960ies was a most solemn declaration of heresy of virtually all bishops of the time including the pope. E.g., to hold that there is a natural right to religious liberty, is heresy. All Fathers of that robber council are heretics having declared their heresies in a most manifest way. Their offspring is of the same kind.

    Heretics are defectors, which — following Canon Law, Can. 188 §4 — lose their offices ipso facto (sentenced by the fact itself), or in other words latae sententiae (sentence automatically imposed, no further explicit sentence necessary).

    But we do not even need Can. 188 §4. Communicatio in sacris with heretics is a sacrilege. It does not only not please the Lord. Communicatio in sacris includes participation in their rites as well as their teachings. A pope or a bishop cannot be someone we should shun, whose rites and teachings we must avoid.




    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

    Offline songbird

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3303
    • Reputation: +1221/-63
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #13 on: August 26, 2018, 08:26:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope Leo XIII saw Christ and Satan fighting it out.  Cardinal Manning was close to the Pope on many matters.  Between the two of them, I am convinced they saw enough and heard enough.  They pondered it and with prayer that they knew big things were coming down the pipes. So, Vatican I was a must.  

    The Prophecies say so much!  Chapter 12, Mass will end! For 3 and half years.  Rome will be destroyed.  Our Lady comes how often, with messages galore, she knows!  We are in latter times, not last times.  We are in so much evil, evil enough to have Mass destroyed, publicly, manifestly.

    Just as it was important to know prophecies before Christ, so it is also important for us to know prophecies for now and prepare.  Consecrate ourselves, families to the Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart.  Prepare for 3 days of darkness.  A prayerful life of Rosary and etc, till then.  

    Offline PAT317

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 332
    • Reputation: +395/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Looking Into Sedevacantism
    « Reply #14 on: August 27, 2018, 08:00:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1

  •  

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16