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Author Topic: Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations  (Read 2039 times)

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Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations
« on: January 05, 2016, 10:38:47 AM »
Take for example this dogma from the 24th Session of the Council of Trent:
Quote from: Canon X.
If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony: let him be anathema.
Suppose I break this into two parts:
Quote
the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy
and
Quote
it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony
Is one only anathematized if he holds both of these statements, or if he also anathematized if he holds either of them individually?

(This is a logic question dealing with "distribution": Does the "Si quis dixeritanathema sit" distribute across the "et" joining these two clauses, or does it only apply to both clauses taken together?)

Offline PG

Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 01:33:04 PM »
Geremia - The use of the word "and" connecting the two tells you that the anathema applies when the two are combined.  If "or" connected the two, then you could say the anathema applies to them separately, but also equally.  

You are however onto something.  I thought over this same thing with regard to papal condemnations of erroneous sentences and perhaps anathemas like this.  And, I can recall, but cannot give an example at the moment, that some condemned sentences of heretics had ideas in them that were not in themselves erroneous or warranting of a condemnation.  But, attached to or combined with these ideas were clearly erroneous ideas that warranted a condemnation.  What is debatable is if it warrants a "wholesale" condemnation(baby with the bathwater).

Erroneous ideas would often use non erroneous ideas as a vehicle.  This was not like modernism where you have completely contradictory ideas combined.  But, error was combined with a permissible position.  But, none the less, in situations, the whole sentence and all ideas contained within were condemned.  However, that is not to say that the permissible idea is actually condemned.  Because, there is the "context" card trick that authorities have up their sleeve.  And, they use it.  However, that is imperfect.  And, I think it is a sloppy.  Canon Hesse even mentioned how there have been inconvenient or perhaps imprudent papal judgments/decisions made that had regrettable consequences later.  


Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 01:51:24 PM »
While this is an interesting logical question, does the answer really matter?  If one states that "the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy" isn't one necessarily also saying that "it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony"?

Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 02:11:29 PM »
Quote from: Dolores
While this is an interesting logical question, does the answer really matter?  If one states that "the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy" isn't one necessarily also saying that "it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony"?
"The marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy" clearly means marriage is greater than virginity/celibacy.
"It is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony" means matrimony and virginity/celibacy are at least on the same level.
Thus, these statements do not mean the same thing.

Logic of Dogmas Expressed as Anathematizations
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 02:28:25 PM »
Quote from: Geremia
"The marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy" clearly means marriage is greater than virginity/celibacy.
"It is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony" means matrimony and virginity/celibacy are at least on the same level.
Thus, these statements do not mean the same thing (and thus one cannot hold both statements simultaneously).
It seems Trent is anathematizing both statements individually: those who think marriage is better than and those who think marriage is equal to virginity/celibacy. This would agree with the Latin original, which uses "et" to join the two statements. Lewis & Short says of "et":
Quote
et designates an external connection of diff. objects with each other
Latin's precision is awesome! It has two words for "and": "et" and "atque" (the latter is for "indicating a close internal connection between single words or whole clauses") and two words for "or": "vel" vs. "aut": "aut is objective, vel subjective, or aut excludes one term, vel makes the two indifferent."