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Author Topic: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020  (Read 2084 times)

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Offline Venantius0518

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Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2020, 07:26:53 PM »
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    • Did anyone else notice the breaking of canon law when he conferred subdiaconate and then diaconate immediately following?
    .
    Canon law says two major orders cannot be conferred the same day.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #31 on: August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 31, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
    Excuse me if I don’t take his word for the conditional consecration.  Perhaps some video of it will be made available?
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward.  
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    Offline Venantius0518

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #32 on: August 02, 2020, 08:53:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward.  
    Prove it.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #33 on: August 02, 2020, 11:17:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward.  
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    Offline Venantius0518

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #34 on: August 03, 2020, 07:48:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward.  
    They video everything, but the one thing most important to the career of Fr. Pfeiffer, the conditional consecration, they don't record?  Hmm.....
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #35 on: August 03, 2020, 10:10:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward.  

    Sorry, but I don't believe this.  If they caught the "irregularity", then they had an obligation to notify Bishop Webster during the ceremony because the rest of the ceremony was improperly held with the assumption that Pfeiffer was already a bishop.

    I doubt they caught anything.  And, even if they did, given how difficult a time Bishop Webster had with the Latin, I don't have a lot of confidence that he got it right the second time.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #36 on: August 03, 2020, 10:11:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Venantius0518 on August 03, 2020, 07:48:39 AM
    They video everything, but the one thing most important to the career of Fr. Pfeiffer, the conditional consecration, they don't record?  Hmm.....

    There's a good chance this never happened.  Thus, no video.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #37 on: August 03, 2020, 10:28:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on August 02, 2020, 11:17:14 PM

    I agree. Either "Tradman" or the MC is lying. 

    Pfeifferville isn't known for keeping a low profile. They record and publish everything. Where is the super important "conditional consecration" ceremony?
    It also doesn't surprise me that Fr. Pfeiffer fails to thank Ladislaus and others on CathInfo for catching this. It was actually a great favor. But of course, no gratitude.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #38 on: August 03, 2020, 10:51:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on August 03, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
    I agree. Either "Tradman" or the MC is lying.

    Pfeifferville isn't known for keeping a low profile. They record and publish everything. Where is the super important "conditional consecration" ceremony?
    It also doesn't surprise me that Fr. Pfeiffer fails to thank Ladislaus and others on CathInfo for catching this. It was actually a great favor. But of course, no gratitude.

    It would not be appropriate for him to thank CathInfo ... IF in fact things went down as he claimed, where he caught the defect immediately and had it corrected right afterward.  But I agree with Father Chazal who also seems to think that he only later became aware of it after word got back through CathInfo and/or NovusOrdo Watch (Bishop Sanborn's take).

    In my mind, there was a dead giveaway when he mentioned the conditional consecration in his first sermon.  He started stuttering badly and looking down.  Just had the body language of lying.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #39 on: August 03, 2020, 11:05:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 03, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
    Sorry, but I don't believe this.  If they caught the "irregularity", then they had an obligation to notify Bishop Webster during the ceremony because the rest of the ceremony was improperly held with the assumption that Pfeiffer was already a bishop.

    I doubt they caught anything.  And, even if they did, given how difficult a time Bishop Webster had with the Latin, I don't have a lot of confidence that he got it right the second time.
    I've since talked to other seminarians in order to get clarity. All were in agreement, although each had his own description. Basically, the MC caught the error and warned the bishop(s). Pfeiffer dismissed the warning and said everything was ok.  Discussion ensued. They reviewed the recording and reconsecrated.  Pfeiffer says a reconsecration was done when he spoke the following day at the sermon at the diaconate.  I agree it would be nice to see a statement from Bishop Webster but I'm no longer in doubt about whether or not Pfeiffer is a bishop.    
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #40 on: August 03, 2020, 11:20:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 03, 2020, 11:05:15 AM
    I've since talked to other seminarians in order to get clarity. All were in agreement, although each had his own description. Basically, the MC caught the error and warned the bishop(s). Pfeiffer dismissed the warning and said everything was ok.  Discussion ensued. They reviewed the recording and reconsecrated.  Pfeiffer says a reconsecration was done when he spoke the following day at the sermon at the diaconate.  I agree it would be nice to see a statement from Bishop Webster but I'm no longer in doubt about whether or not Pfeiffer is a bishop.    
    It begs the question: Why would they publish a video that contains obvious errors without a rider explaining the correction?
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #41 on: August 03, 2020, 11:37:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on August 03, 2020, 11:20:11 AM
    It begs the question: Why would they publish a video that contains obvious errors without a rider explaining the correction?
    Aren't we talking Pfeiffer?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #42 on: August 03, 2020, 11:44:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 03, 2020, 11:05:15 AM
    I've since talked to other seminarians in order to get clarity. All were in agreement, although each had his own description. Basically, the MC caught the error and warned the bishop(s). Pfeiffer dismissed the warning and said everything was ok.  Discussion ensued. They reviewed the recording and reconsecrated.  Pfeiffer says a reconsecration was done when he spoke the following day at the sermon at the diaconate.  I agree it would be nice to see a statement from Bishop Webster but I'm no longer in doubt about whether or not Pfeiffer is a bishop.    

    That bolded statement is the only thing there that has a ring of truth about it.

    I'm still in doubt.

    Did everybody hang around for hours after the long ceremony discussing and reviewing the video?  It takes a while to find it and to review it.  Was the video immediately available for playback?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #43 on: August 03, 2020, 11:48:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on August 03, 2020, 11:20:11 AM
    It begs the question: Why would they publish a video that contains obvious errors without a rider explaining the correction?

    EXACTLY RIGHT.  They published the video right away because they did not notice the error.

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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Live: Tonsure Minor Orders Subdeacons Deacon July 31, 2020
    « Reply #44 on: August 03, 2020, 11:56:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 02, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
    I actually talked to the MC that said he caught the irregularity of the words Bishop Webster and because of that, they reconsecrated afterward. 
    Tradman, in this particular case, where there is indisputable evidence which proves he received a doubtful/invalid consecration, word of mouth that this was corrected is not good enough to serve as proof, not by any stretch. As it is now, now he *has to* provide evidence of validity.   
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