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Offline Nishant Xavier

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List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« on: May 22, 2020, 03:03:10 PM »
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  • The oldest living Bishops are mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals

    This is a question to sedevacantists: Will any length of purported interregnum make you re-think whether we really are in an interregnum? Even if you think a 62-year interregnum is still possible, does a 65 or at least a 70 year interregnum stretch the limit?

    Why does the time matter? Because, Bishops receive Appointment to Office by the Pope that Appoints them. Of every Bishop, it can be said, Bishop X received his Authority from Pope Y. Thus, the Apostolic Succession and the Petrine Succession are intimately connected.

    Hence, it follows also from the Dogma of Apostolicity that the Church cannot be without Successors to St. Peter forever. For the Petrine Succession being thereby disrupted, the Apostolic Succession also will eventually cease, when all Papally-Appointed-Bishops finally die.

    Take a look at the link. Only one Bishop was Consecrated in 1958. (That Bishop was Appointed only in 1960 per http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bpinc.html) Only 4 living Bishops were Consecrated before 3 Jun 1963. Another 4, 8 in all, were Consecrated by 1965.

    So has not the hypothesis of an interregnum or sede vacante starting in 1958, at least, been demonstrably falsified by this point? Will not the idea of a sede vacante starting in 1962 or 1965 be clearly disproven in just another few years? At some point, sedevacantism, being only a human opinion, and not a divine dogma, must give place to reason, and admit itself falsified by the length of interregnum. If it is true that the Church needs perpetual Successors to St. Peter, that She must always remain Apostolic not only in Orders but also in Jurisdiction or Apostolic Authority, and that Bishops receive Authority only from the Roman Pontiff, at the very least a 65 or 70 year interregnum with no pre-65 Bishops remaining must be adjudged impossible by Catholics conscious of these doctrines and dogmas.

    Thoughts?
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 03:23:36 PM »
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  • Thoughts?

    I wouldn't call myself a sedevacantist, since I believe that the Holy See as well as all other sees are occupied/usurped by antichrist "bishops".

    Antipope Francis recently gave up his usurped title "Vicar of Christ", as reported by Marco Tosatti.

    Concerning the 62/70 years, I expect the Lord to return soon (+/- 70 years, max. 120, after 1965). I would (have to) admit that my current assessment of the situation is or was wrong, as soon as the generation of the Robber Council will have passed away (which cannot happen while I have to continue in this life).

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 07:31:11 PM »
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  • The oldest living Bishops are mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals

    This is a question to sedevacantists: Will any length of purported interregnum make you re-think whether we really are in an interregnum? Even if you think a 62-year interregnum is still possible, does a 65 or at least a 70 year interregnum stretch the limit?

    Why does the time matter? Because, Bishops receive Appointment to Office by the Pope that Appoints them. Of every Bishop, it can be said, Bishop X received his Authority from Pope Y. Thus, the Apostolic Succession and the Petrine Succession are intimately connected.

    Hence, it follows also from the Dogma of Apostolicity that the Church cannot be without Successors to St. Peter forever. For the Petrine Succession being thereby disrupted, the Apostolic Succession also will eventually cease, when all Papally-Appointed-Bishops finally die.

    Take a look at the link. Only one Bishop was Consecrated in 1958. (That Bishop was Appointed only in 1960 per http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bpinc.html) Only 4 living Bishops were Consecrated before 3 Jun 1963. Another 4, 8 in all, were Consecrated by 1965.

    So has not the hypothesis of an interregnum or sede vacante starting in 1958, at least, been demonstrably falsified by this point? Will not the idea of a sede vacante starting in 1962 or 1965 be clearly disproven in just another few years? At some point, sedevacantism, being only a human opinion, and not a divine dogma, must give place to reason, and admit itself falsified by the length of interregnum. If it is true that the Church needs perpetual Successors to St. Peter, that She must always remain Apostolic not only in Orders but also in Jurisdiction or Apostolic Authority, and that Bishops receive Authority only from the Roman Pontiff, at the very least a 65 or 70 year interregnum with no pre-65 Bishops remaining must be adjudged impossible by Catholics conscious of these doctrines and dogmas.

    Thoughts?
    I'm not a Sede but it is my understanding that the way bishops are appointed is a disciplinary matter, and can be overuled if the salvation of souls is at stake. Can anyone with more knowledge than me clarify this?

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 07:33:11 PM »
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  • I meant consecrate, not appoint.

    Offline jerm

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 11:21:31 PM »
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  • The oldest living Bishops are mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals

    This is a question to sedevacantists: Will any length of purported interregnum make you re-think whether we really are in an interregnum? Even if you think a 62-year interregnum is still possible, does a 65 or at least a 70 year interregnum stretch the limit?

    Why does the time matter? Because, Bishops receive Appointment to Office by the Pope that Appoints them. Of every Bishop, it can be said, Bishop X received his Authority from Pope Y. Thus, the Apostolic Succession and the Petrine Succession are intimately connected.

    Hence, it follows also from the Dogma of Apostolicity that the Church cannot be without Successors to St. Peter forever. For the Petrine Succession being thereby disrupted, the Apostolic Succession also will eventually cease, when all Papally-Appointed-Bishops finally die.

    Take a look at the link. Only one Bishop was Consecrated in 1958. (That Bishop was Appointed only in 1960 per http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bpinc.html) Only 4 living Bishops were Consecrated before 3 Jun 1963. Another 4, 8 in all, were Consecrated by 1965.

    So has not the hypothesis of an interregnum or sede vacante starting in 1958, at least, been demonstrably falsified by this point? Will not the idea of a sede vacante starting in 1962 or 1965 be clearly disproven in just another few years? At some point, sedevacantism, being only a human opinion, and not a divine dogma, must give place to reason, and admit itself falsified by the length of interregnum. If it is true that the Church needs perpetual Successors to St. Peter, that She must always remain Apostolic not only in Orders but also in Jurisdiction or Apostolic Authority, and that Bishops receive Authority only from the Roman Pontiff, at the very least a 65 or 70 year interregnum with no pre-65 Bishops remaining must be adjudged impossible by Catholics conscious of these doctrines and dogmas.

    Thoughts?
    This is a good point, and I hadn't thought of it. Even if you want to say that a retired Archbishop who supports Vatican II is the sole carrier of the original mechanism for apostolic succession left, none of the traditionalist groups have ever implied that this needs to be the case, and none have made any sort of definitive statements about the time limits of the resistance/interregnum. I'd agree that it's another problematic point for most of the non-FSSP or diocesan traditionalist positions.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #5 on: May 24, 2020, 09:20:31 AM »
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  • Most sedevacantists don't see the Church being restored by some 100-year-old bishop appointed by Pius XII or John XXIII. You'll get various different explanations on this, but some believe that the Novus Ordo clergy of Rome could repent and profess the Faith, and they would have the right to elect a pope. Or a Novus Ordo cardinal could do the same thing, or several cardinals, and they would have the power to elect a pope. Or Jorge Bergoglio could repent (or some successor of his) and the whole church would accept him as pope, in which case he would be pope by acclamation, which is one of the ways a pope can be elected.
    .
    The idea you describe here, where there is some sort of deadline that is rapidly approaching, after which it will be impossible to elect a pope, is simply not part of sedevacantist theory, nor do sedes believe in anything like that.
    .
    Xav, you really should spend more time talking to sedevacantists and actually asking them what they believe. The Bellarmine Forums of John Lane aren't functioning anymore, but the old threads are all still there, and ideas like this get discussed there at great length. If you really want to learn what sedes actually believe, I'd look there: http://www.sedevacantist.com/viewforum.php?f=2

    Offline jerm

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 03:14:39 PM »
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  • Most sedevacantists don't see the Church being restored by some 100-year-old bishop appointed by Pius XII or John XXIII. You'll get various different explanations on this, but some believe that the Novus Ordo clergy of Rome could repent and profess the Faith, and they would have the right to elect a pope. Or a Novus Ordo cardinal could do the same thing, or several cardinals, and they would have the power to elect a pope. Or Jorge Bergoglio could repent (or some successor of his) and the whole church would accept him as pope, in which case he would be pope by acclamation, which is one of the ways a pope can be elected.
    .
    The idea you describe here, where there is some sort of deadline that is rapidly approaching, after which it will be impossible to elect a pope, is simply not part of sedevacantist theory, nor do sedes believe in anything like that.
    .
    Xav, you really should spend more time talking to sedevacantists and actually asking them what they believe. The Bellarmine Forums of John Lane aren't functioning anymore, but the old threads are all still there, and ideas like this get discussed there at great length. If you really want to learn what sedes actually believe, I'd look there: http://www.sedevacantist.com/viewforum.php?f=2
    As happens with a lot of conversations on sedevacantism, there's an element of speaking past one another. Many sedevacantists think that their position is spotless, and when others object to it, they simply aren't engaging the position. Xav isn't doing that, however. He's saying that the sedevacantist position is inconsistent for not addressing this concern. Just because sedevacantists haven't addressed it, that does not mean that it's coherent for them not to. It's possible to hold to a position that is incoherent, but not to know that it's incoherent. When you say that most sedevacantists disagree with Xav's idea here, you would need to defend that as a possibility. Just stating the opinion doesn't make it viable.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 04:51:40 PM »
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  • As happens with a lot of conversations on sedevacantism, there's an element of speaking past one another. Many sedevacantists think that their position is spotless, and when others object to it, they simply aren't engaging the position. Xav isn't doing that, however. He's saying that the sedevacantist position is inconsistent for not addressing this concern. Just because sedevacantists haven't addressed it, that does not mean that it's coherent for them not to. It's possible to hold to a position that is incoherent, but not to know that it's incoherent. When you say that most sedevacantists disagree with Xav's idea here, you would need to defend that as a possibility. Just stating the opinion doesn't make it viable.
    Yes, 62+years SVism runs into two problems here. First, you need Bishops with Jurisdiction to pass the alleged sentence that the supposed Pope-heretic has lost his office, before a new Pope is elected. But the sedes, since they waited 62 years to do it, have no Jurisdictional Bishops left. That is one part of the problem. The other problem is doctrinal. It cannot happen that there are no more Papally appointed Bishops, diocesan Ordinaries in other words. Yet that is exactly where 62 year sede-vacantism leads to. Hence, it is doctrinally incorrect and cannot be the true explanation.

    Yeti, I've read the two prominent sedevacantist explanations for it, and both are lacking. One is that it allegedly can happen that there are no Bishops with Ordinary Jurisdiction in the Church. That is contradicted by the Vatican I statement that there will be Shepherds and Teachers in the Church until the end of time. The other that even heretical non-Popes can appoint Bishops to office. That is contradicted by cuм Ex, which says all such would lack all authority.

    Struthio, are you saying you will re-think your asssessment about sedevacantism? When? In 2035? If someone really believed in SVism, he should be doing all he can aimed at gathering those Bishops appointed by Pope John XXIII in a Council, and trying to elect a new Pope. He should be striving to do this quickly before time runs out.

    By reductio ad absurdum, all Catholics can already be fairly certain 62 year svism is not the correct explanation in 3 to 5 to 8 more years, it'll become even more obvious that 65 year SVism etc is not correct.
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.


    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 05:42:54 PM »
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  • The oldest living Bishops are mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals

    This is a question to sedevacantists: Will any length of purported interregnum make you re-think whether we really are in an interregnum? Even if you think a 62-year interregnum is still possible, does a 65 or at least a 70 year interregnum stretch the limit?

    Why does the time matter? Because, Bishops receive Appointment to Office by the Pope that Appoints them. Of every Bishop, it can be said, Bishop X received his Authority from Pope Y. Thus, the Apostolic Succession and the Petrine Succession are intimately connected.

    Hence, it follows also from the Dogma of Apostolicity that the Church cannot be without Successors to St. Peter forever. For the Petrine Succession being thereby disrupted, the Apostolic Succession also will eventually cease, when all Papally-Appointed-Bishops finally die.

    Take a look at the link. Only one Bishop was Consecrated in 1958. (That Bishop was Appointed only in 1960 per http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bpinc.html) Only 4 living Bishops were Consecrated before 3 Jun 1963. Another 4, 8 in all, were Consecrated by 1965.

    So has not the hypothesis of an interregnum or sede vacante starting in 1958, at least, been demonstrably falsified by this point? Will not the idea of a sede vacante starting in 1962 or 1965 be clearly disproven in just another few years? At some point, sedevacantism, being only a human opinion, and not a divine dogma, must give place to reason, and admit itself falsified by the length of interregnum. If it is true that the Church needs perpetual Successors to St. Peter, that She must always remain Apostolic not only in Orders but also in Jurisdiction or Apostolic Authority, and that Bishops receive Authority only from the Roman Pontiff, at the very least a 65 or 70 year interregnum with no pre-65 Bishops remaining must be adjudged impossible by Catholics conscious of these doctrines and dogmas.

    Thoughts?
    A bishop with traditional orders who gives allegiance to a possible anti-Pope like Paul VI is still a bishop. 1958 or 1960 makes no sense as a cut off. Constitutional clergy in France were afterwards accepted. Valid orders with no Papal allegiance. The Pauline Ordinal is surely the point of possible rupture.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 07:27:49 AM »
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  • Struthio, are you saying you will re-think your asssessment about sedevacantism? When? In 2035? If someone really believed in SVism, he should be doing all he can aimed at gathering those Bishops appointed by Pope John XXIII in a Council, and trying to elect a new Pope. He should be striving to do this quickly before time runs out.

    By reductio ad absurdum, all Catholics can already be fairly certain 62 year svism is not the correct explanation in 3 to 5 to 8 more years, it'll become even more obvious that 65 year SVism etc is not correct.

    As I said, I don't believe that the term sede vacante describes correctly what we have. Sede vacante is a regular and frequent situation. What we witness is a different thing. Seats are not vacant, but rather usurped by false, antichrist, antibishops which adhere to a Robber Council that has abrogated the First Commandment by introducing previously condemned Religious Liberty.

    I don't think I will ever have to rethink this assessment with respect to sede vacante. Also, I don't think, I will ever have to rethink my assessment that the Robber Council is an abomination, the new mass is an abomination, and this whole new religion of the "new Pentecost" is abomination.

    Quote from: Matth 24
    [14] And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. [15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.  [...] [34] Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

    I think that verse 15 gives us "[3] ...the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world", and that the generation of witnesses of the abomination (aprox. 1965) shall not pass. Now, when that generation has passed, I'll have to rethink this interpretation, and maybe the whole situation.

    But:

    1.) These "Bishops", you talk about, didn't speak out against the abomination but rather are part of it. They manifestly are part of the false new religion. Why gather a bunch of heretics? To found another false religion?

    2.) False ideas about what the true situation of the Church is do not turn concilar Heresy into true Faith. If my assessment or the assessment of sedevacantist is wrong, then the Council and the false Relgion usurping all holy places still are an abomination.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 08:58:20 AM »
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  • But when does the generation that began in 1965 end? 2035? or supposedly 2085? You said 70 years. But also possibly till 120 years. 

    I think that's mistaken. The Church of Christ cannot cease to be Apostolic nor lose Her Apostolic Authority. This is clearly taught in the Catholic Encyclopedia. She will always have the Apostolic Mission, Ordinary Jurisdiction, and She will never defect. If all offices in the Church have defected to usurpers, the Church also has defected. Since that is impossible, it could not have taken place, and that explanation is false: Here is the CE on Apostolicity.

    "Apostolicity is the mark by which the Church of today is recognized as identical with the Church founded by Jesus Christ upon the Apostles. It is of great importance because it is the surest indication of the true Church of Christ, it is most easily examined, and it virtually contains the other three marks, namely, Unity, Sanctity, and Catholicity ...

    Apostolicity of mission is a guarantee of Apostolicity of doctrine. St. Irenæus (Adv. Haeres, IV, xxvi, n. 2) says: "Wherefore we must obey the priests of the Church who have succession from the Apostles, as we have shown, who, together with succession in the episcopate, have received the certain mark of truth according to the will of the Father; all others, however, are to be suspected, who separated themselves from the principal succession", etc. In explaining the concept of Apostolicity, then, special attention must be given to Apostolicity of mission, or Apostolic succession. Apostolicity of mission means that the Church is one moral body, possessing the mission entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles, and transmitted through them and their lawful successors in an unbroken chain to the present representatives of Christ upon earth...

    The history of the Catholic Church from St. Peter, the first Pontiff, to the present Head of the Church, is an evident proof of its Apostolicity, for no break can be shown in the line of succession. Cardinal Newman (Diff. of Anglicans, 369) says: "Say there is no church at all if you will, and at least I shall understand you; but do not meddle with a fact attested by mankind." ...

    Regarding the Greek Church, it is sufficient to note that it lost apostolic succession by withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the lawful successors of St. Peter in the See of Rome. The same is to be said of the Anglican claims to continuity (MacLaughlin, "Divine Plan of the Church", 213; and, Newman, "Diff. of Angl.", Lecture 12.) for the very fact of separation destroys their jurisdiction. They have based their claims on the validity of orders in the Anglican Church. Anglican orders, however, have been declared invalid. But even if they were valid, the Anglican Church would not be Apostolic, for jurisdiction is essential to the Apostolicity of mission."
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #11 on: May 25, 2020, 02:38:47 PM »
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  • "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them." (Rev 13,7)

    The Church will be in eclipse: "the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven" (Matth 24,29; compare the woman of Rev 12, sun, moon, stars)

    "And when the scattering of the band of the holy people shall be accomplished, all these things shall be finished." (Dan 12,7)

    "But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?" (Luke 18,8)

    "And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened." (Matth 24,22)


    The Church of Christ cannot cease to be Apostolic nor lose Her Apostolic Authority. This is clearly taught in the Catholic Encyclopedia. She will always have the Apostolic Mission, Ordinary Jurisdiction, and She will never defect.

    That's your own wording, or maybe of some insignificant theologian. The authoritative Vatican Council teaches that there will be (apostolically authorized) shepherds including a Pope usque ad consummationem saeculi (up to the consummation of the age, cf. Matth 28,20). The Church may then cease to have shepherds and a Pope.

    Now, there is no positive definition, what the consummation of the age means. But in Matth 24,14 Our Lord says that it comes when the Gospel has been preached to all nations. Then we should watch out for the abomination of desolation at the holy place, which some fathers (e.g. John Chrysostom, Bede) have interpreted as false teachers in place of true bishops.

    In many places the consummatio saeculi is translated as simply the end. Understood by some as meaning the last judgment. But St. Augustine says that the whole final time of tribulation, including the time of Antichrist, may be included in the day of judgment, since a day does not necessarily signifies a day in the literal sense. The seduction of Antichrist may be part of what is called the last judgment. There have been other judgments before the last judgment, which took quite some time to be consummated.

    A scattered small number of Faithful will be left, when Our Lord returns. Scattered, not gathered by apostolic shepherds. As far as I can see, that's a licit way to read the signs of the times. It doesn't contradict any Church teaching.



    But when does the generation that began in 1965 end? 2035? or supposedly 2085? You said 70 years. But also possibly till 120 years.

    After 120 years, I think I would definitively have to revise my point of view. After 70 I'd start to get nervous. I hope the days will be shortened.

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 02:55:47 PM »
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  • In many cases the saints and doctors of the Church show a parallel between Christ and His Bride, the Church.  I think the best theory I have ever heard of how the Restoration will happen is that it will happen through the Hand of God and not through normal means of mankind.  Most of mankind could not wrap their minds around the idea that Our Lord could die and still truly be God.  Hence He was abandoned by even most of those closest to Him.  If the apostles had known how Our Lord's Crucifixion would have been remedied by His Resurrection they would not have abandoned Him.  It was a matter of Faith and only Our Lady, Saint John and a few others remained faithful and trusting in Our Lord until the end.

    In a similar way...  

    The Church seems to have died.  Many say that therefore, Traditional Catholicism can never have been the True Faith.  I believe that it is a similar situation as with Our Lord's crucifixion.  God has concealed from us the means of how the Church will be ressurected.  It is not our job to try and find out what God has not revealed to us or argue about how or when the Church will be restored.  Our job is to keep the Faith and the traditions.  To watch and be faithful like Our Lady and Saint John until the day God rises the Church up again.

    When Our Lord rose from the dead, people often did not recognize Him until the "breaking of the bread" which many understand to have been the Mass.  In a similar sense, it could be argued that when the Church is risen up again by God it will be by the True Form and Traditional Mass that It shall be recognized.

    Come Holy Ghost and restore the Faith on earth!

    Viva Cristo Rey!

    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 03:01:25 PM »
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  • On the other hand, the seeming "death of the Church" is the result of faithlessness, of apostacy, of bad will. And this cannot be compared to the death of Our Lord.

    In my eyes, the destruction of the Church can more aptly compared to the destruction of the Temple A.D. 70. The "Apostate Church" has been trying to kill Our Lord (spiritually) again.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 03:18:14 PM »
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  • The idea you describe here, where there is some sort of deadline that is rapidly approaching, after which it will be impossible to elect a pope, is simply not part of sedevacantist theory, nor do sedes believe in anything like that.

    He likes to strawman sedevacantists.